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Hey all!

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I think game and relic studio in the big trouble

Vovchik NaletovVovchik Naletov Member, Insider ✭Scout Cavalry✭

I found on glassdoor anonymous interview from one of the current relic employer that have answer from relic GM:
https://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/Employee-Review-Relic-Entertainment-RVW18568693.htm
So according to this review, aoe 4 at this moment becoming epic failure, relic has some serious in-house culture trouble. So maybe that's why we don't get any info about game even today.

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Comments

  • nonlosojimmynonlosojimmy Member, Insider ✭Ox Cart✭

    ****. I read it now. Bad news. So Microsoft, show us some new info. We want ti know What happened.

  • CostlierParrot3CostlierParrot3 Member, Insider ✭Ox Cart✭

    .... it is not very comfortable to have read that review ....

  • IamDalvIamDalv Member, Insider ✭Ox Cart✭
    edited January 27

    Wow... unfortunately, I have to agree, that review looks legit enough and has obvious references to AOE4 in order for us to be concerned. I wonder what's the direction that employee is talking about, hopefully it's not a progression system and/or hero units. Clearly they should have learned their lesson after DoW3, but this makes me think otherwise.

    Good find...

    l.e. - To make this a TLDR again and probably over-speculate what this is about:
    It just baffles me why aren't they just reaching to fans if they "don't understand what gamers want", before it's too late? What's with all this stubborn approach? Blizzard has done it with Starcraft 2. I can't help but think they are again trying to innovate in a genre that has already lost its identity. They say they are talking to fans, but this proves otherwise. There is, though, that story with AOE2 experts flying to Vancouver probably to offer early feedback; surely they must have done so, unless they were 'yes men' afraid of offering honest constructive-criticism. And I know a game's development process is firstly directed to the casual-wider market, not to the hardcore fans, if it is to be successful, but nevertheless this is about returning to the identity of AOE and RTS as a genre, after so many failures of chasing and embedding allochthonous material. People just want to play a proper RTS again, not hybrids.
    Yes, that review can be confusing, it's impossible to know for sure what that employee is talking about exactly, but it's sad to see they have these problems within the company when they themselves posted this article on their facebook page about what makes a great game developing team: https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2018/01/the-age-of-age-of-empires-as-told-by-the-devs-who-built-it/

  • nonlosojimmynonlosojimmy Member, Insider ✭Ox Cart✭

    We need new material info, images or artworks, which show the state of development

  • Nakamura_RTSNakamura_RTS Member ✭Idle Villager✭

    This is worrying indeed. I hope no dev is thinking themselves to be above the timelessness of the franchise, particularly if this is true and there is a design dictatorship going on.

    Apply the core rules of standard RTS and Age of Empires, tweak them to work within a flow that is expected in this day and age (e.g. don't take 7+ minutes to really get a game going), and respect fundamental mechanics that are essential to deep RTS gameplay (mechanics that that allow players to differentiate themselves incrementally, such as population and houses, or the resource drop off mechanic)

    Don't take away depth and complexity. Don't casualize the game in hopes of attracting a bigger audience. That is not what the core RTS audience likes. Have a clean UI that provides players with useful information. Make control of an army feel smooth, and units should be responsive, not clunky.

    I could go on, but I think too many people may take these for granted - creative types often question fundamentals, even when it's counterproductive to do so.

  • PCS70PCS70 NLMember, Insider ✭Musketeer✭

    Based on just one anonymous review full slander while they are having 14 new job positions open?

    Must be a bad joke or so from a competitor. Also I wouldn't want to seethe AOE franchise move direction to games like SC and WH. That would be a very bad decision imho. Further I agree with @Nakamura esp about a clean revamped GUI. Take the new Xbox Live Beta hub as an good example for that. I also noticed that the Windows OS is getting prepared for live streaming, so certain things should be able to integrate with each other in one nice clean metro styled interface with some nice classic AOE background image.

    It takes a lot of time through many layers to get things done at MS, but they are heading the right direction with this. That Valve with Steam e.g. will not like this is their problem.

    Their next big title is AOE DE btw.

  • nonlosojimmynonlosojimmy Member, Insider ✭Ox Cart✭
    edited January 27

    The guy complains bad direction in AOE' s development. The same bad direction behind the failure of Dawn 3

  • Yeshna12Yeshna12 Member, Insider ✭Ox Cart✭

    @PCS70 said:
    Based on just one anonymous review full slander while they are having 14 new job positions open?

    Must be a bad joke or so from a competitor. Also I wouldn't want to seethe AOE franchise move direction to games like SC and WH. That would be a very bad decision imho. Further I agree with @Nakamura esp about a clean revamped GUI. Take the new Xbox Live Beta hub as an good example for that. I also noticed that the Windows OS is getting prepared for live streaming, so certain things should be able to integrate with each other in one nice clean metro styled interface with some nice classic AOE background image.

    It takes a lot of time through many layers to get things done at MS, but they are heading the right direction with this. That Valve with Steam e.g. will not like this is their problem.

    Their next big title is AOE DE btw.

    Those are last year vacancies.
    Regarding AOE4 i will buy it only if its a standalone game already lost 110 USA dollars on AOEO.

  • IamDalvIamDalv Member, Insider ✭Ox Cart✭
    edited January 27

    @PCS70 said:
    Based on just one anonymous review full slander while they are having 14 new job positions open?

    Must be a bad joke or so from a competitor. Also I wouldn't want to seethe AOE franchise move direction to games like SC and WH. That would be a very bad decision imho. Further I agree with @Nakamura esp about a clean revamped GUI. Take the new Xbox Live Beta hub as an good example for that. I also noticed that the Windows OS is getting prepared for live streaming, so certain things should be able to integrate with each other in one nice clean metro styled interface with some nice classic AOE background image.

    It takes a lot of time through many layers to get things done at MS, but they are heading the right direction with this. That Valve with Steam e.g. will not like this is their problem.

    Their next big title is AOE DE btw.

    Their next big title is AOE4. Relic doesn't have anything to do with AoE:DE.

    And it looks legit enough, the reviewer lists company pros and cons only an insider would be aware of, and he gets validating answer from a manager.

  • PCS70PCS70 NLMember, Insider ✭Musketeer✭

    I don't literally read about AOE in that review of the employee, so it's all assuming it is about AOE IV.

  • PCS70PCS70 NLMember, Insider ✭Musketeer✭
    edited January 27

    @IamDalv I can understand there is some kind of pressure and of course the manager should respond to this. I do read a lot of good reviews too though and I can't say anything serious about their previous failures. The only thing I can say that I don't agree on his point of view regarding SC and WH being the only successful RTS franchises and they should adjust to that. RTS has always been a very diverse genre, but AOE is unique in it. Don't change that.

  • DandelionDandelion Member, Insider ✭Idle Villager✭

    I think we will know all, when will gameplay trailer.
    Надеюсь скоро.

  • AugustusmanAugustusman Member, Insider ✭Knight✭
    edited January 27

    @Dandelion said:
    I think we will know all, when will gameplay trailer.
    Надеюсь скоро.

    Maybe in next E3.

  • MehkindMehkind Member, Insider ✭Ox Cart✭

    Maybe one of us know Relic's dna, maybe someone knows how relic works. But who?

  • CostlierParrot3CostlierParrot3 Member, Insider ✭Ox Cart✭
    edited February 5

    I'm not sure it's already been posted somewhere else, but according to this source, Relic is not really going through a good time. Until now we have only speculated on the basis of a negative review by a Relic employee and our feelings, but read this: https://game2day.org/news/25369/insaider-studiya-relic-entertainment-na-grani-zakrytiya

    Obviously, we just have to wait for new developments in the AoE4 game! As may be true, I wish the study of Relic to find stability!

  • IamDalvIamDalv Member, Insider ✭Ox Cart✭
    edited February 5

    On the contrary, that mini-article confirms Relic is going through a rough time.

    CEO Justin Daudswell in a conversation with reporters confirmed the difficult situation that Relic Entertainment is experiencing now.

    While the title reads like this:

    Toxic atmosphere, strong staff turnover - Relic Entertainment on the verge of closure

    But not only is the article super short, they don't give any sources or anything. Am I missing something?

  • CostlierParrot3CostlierParrot3 Member, Insider ✭Ox Cart✭

    @IamDalv said:
    On the contrary, that mini-article confirms Relic is going through a rough time.

    CEO Justin Daudswell in a conversation with reporters confirmed the difficult situation that Relic Entertainment is experiencing now.

    While the title reads like this:

    Toxic atmosphere, strong staff turnover - Relic Entertainment on the verge of closure

    But not only is the article super short, they don't give any sources or anything. Am I missing something?

    Yes, that's what I meant ... that relic is going through a difficult time.

  • IamDalvIamDalv Member, Insider ✭Ox Cart✭

    Oh, right...

  • nonlosojimmynonlosojimmy Member, Insider ✭Ox Cart✭

    Sad news. So why don't they show What they are working on as well? Too silence about a game in development since 1 year at least

  • PCS70PCS70 NLMember, Insider ✭Musketeer✭

    @IamDalv They are referring to the same article on Glassdoor. Relic is working on more new titles though and the article on Glassdoor doesn't mention it's explicit about AOE IV. But one thing is true, as software developer you can't make too much failures. All developers are experiencing this kind of stress anyway so that's normal imho.

  • TentacleBanditTentacleBandit Member ✭Scout Cavalry✭
    > @Andy P said:
    > "There is a heavy feeling in the studio that if and when our next big game releases and is a flop then it's game over for Relic."
    >
    > They are developing Age of Empires 4. I am no RTS or Relic historian, but in Relic's area of the industry, AoE4 has got to be one of the single most anticipated titles ever. If AoE4 flops, one would assume there would be a huge reckoning for any developer. I have to assume everyone at Relic knows this is the most important game of their careers. It is fair to give them the benefit of the doubt until we see otherwise.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > This is absolutely true. A developer could have a lengthy track record of success but it only takes one, maybe two if they're a big enough company, bad game(s) to bring them crashing to the ground. Mythic had a lot of success with Dark Age of Camelot but WARHAmmer: Online ended up being the company's downfall. Maxis was incredibly well known for their massive success with The Sims but after the less than lukewarm reception of The Sims 4 and Sim City EA shut them down. Visceral Games was recently shut down and they were working on a triple A Star Wars game with big name game designers developing the game.
    >
    > Finally we come to BioWare who hasn't been shut down yet but used to be known as one of the top developers in the game industry and after Dragon Age: II, Star Wars: The Old Republic, Mass Effect III's ending, and Mass Effect: Andromeda it's clear that if Anthem goes south that studio most likely will be absorbed by other EA studios and the developers there are well aware of it.
    >
    > Relic knows what they're up against. They know that if they mess this up they're most likely done. AoE is one of the biggest names in the RTS industry and to be responsible for a true fourth installment is quite a daunting task. It's enough to get anyone working on it on edge. Personally I say we wait until we start seeing some concrete details of the game, gameplay, footage, or screenshots before we start worrying that this game is completely doomed.

    Actually the studio/team that made Sim City (Maxis) is not the same studio that make the Sims games anymore. The Sims Studio made Sims 3 and 4, the sims studio is alive and well. The Sims 4 itself is doing very well according to EA's last investors call and its last expansion pack moved record numbers. Overall the Sims 4 has done very well since its rocky launch year and has a very large and dedicated player base of mostly younger games. According to a lot of polls the Sims 4 holds the position of "favorite" of the Series.

    So how did this happen after a rocky launch?

    In this case the studio listened to and gave the players more of what they wanted and listened to their feedback. This included a bunch of free content with major updates, constant patching and community engagement.

    Which is my point/example of studio working with the community to improve their game and grow it. Its clearly paid off now for the Sims 4 as it looks to continue into 2018 and 2019.
  • IamDalvIamDalv Member, Insider ✭Ox Cart✭
    edited February 7

    The advantage of Sims is that it can't be a pay2win game no matter what they do ;)
    Because I bet it has the cancer that is microtransactions

  • ZathrusZathrus Member, Insider ✭Scout Cavalry✭
    The anonymous employee review isn't that unusual in the gaming development community. Tough business and hard on devs.
  • PostalPie686647PostalPie686647 NetherlandsMember, Insider ✭Scout Cavalry✭
    I actualy dont think Relic is in trouble, because i found some info about AoE4 that it is in the make.


    @Hibou said:
    When we can see news about these 2 projects ? @r_benb

    Well, AOEIV you already know. But both projects are heads down until they're ready to show off. I can't speak to their timelines more than that.

    @mrjade @12ozMouse Hey guys, I'm trying to be as transparent as I can here but I can't reveal new info on upcoming projects.
    What I can tell you is that both are being developed very differently for Relic and there is a lot of positive change afoot specifically around community consultation,
    user research, and early playtesting.
  • SecretcodrinSecretcodrin Member, Insider ✭Scout Cavalry✭
    Bad news bears. I really hope they fix themselves. Relic made my favorite rts game.
  • Vermi1lionHawkVermi1lionHawk Member ✭Scout Cavalry✭
    Relic is pretty much finished. They might be focusing all their resources on Age of Empires 4 but they've been outsourcing development of Company of Heroes 2 (their other RTS game) to a bunch of modders and they completely dropped support of Dawn of War III not even a year after its release, having made no expansion packs and after several months of radio silence, promising that community that they had something in the works. Turns out that something was a cancellation notice.

    Relic is in serious trouble and I sincerely doubt that they will be able to make Age of Empires IV at all to the level it deserves, it's pretty obvious that they have no clue what they're doing in this industry. Alas for the days of Ensemble...
  • nonlosojimmynonlosojimmy Member, Insider ✭Ox Cart✭

    @Vermi1lionHawk said:
    Relic is pretty much finished. They might be focusing all their resources on Age of Empires 4 but they've been outsourcing development of Company of Heroes 2 (their other RTS game) to a bunch of modders and they completely dropped support of Dawn of War III not even a year after its release, having made no expansion packs and after several months of radio silence, promising that community that they had something in the works. Turns out that something was a cancellation notice.



    Relic is in serious trouble and I sincerely doubt that they will be able to make Age of Empires IV at all to the level it deserves, it's pretty obvious that they have no clue what they're doing in this industry. Alas for the days of Ensemble...

    This is the reason to show us some progress in the game. We need to see more.

  • Vermi1lionHawkVermi1lionHawk Member ✭Scout Cavalry✭
    > @nonlosojimmy said:
    > @Vermi1lionHawk said:
    > Relic is pretty much finished. They might be focusing all their resources on Age of Empires 4 but they've been outsourcing development of Company of Heroes 2 (their other RTS game) to a bunch of modders and they completely dropped support of Dawn of War III not even a year after its release, having made no expansion packs and after several months of radio silence, promising that community that they had something in the works. Turns out that something was a cancellation notice.
    >
    >
    >
    > Relic is in serious trouble and I sincerely doubt that they will be able to make Age of Empires IV at all to the level it deserves, it's pretty obvious that they have no clue what they're doing in this industry. Alas for the days of Ensemble...
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > This is the reason to show us some progress in the game. We need to see more.

    Thing is, they probably won't show us any more. There's a review on Relic's glassdoor page, google Relic glassdoor and you'll see it (sadly I can't link it right now). It was posted in January of this year and it gives a pretty good picture, from someone who works at the company, of why this game will fail.

    That was posted in January of this year. It's obvious - they haven't got a clue how they're going to make this game, and it's going to be a long, long time before we see anything substantial beyond some concept art or a CG trailer. Relic is already screwed, so don't get your hopes up for this game.
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