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Graphics preferences for AoE IV

Teutonic_knightTeutonic_knight AlaskaMember ✭Scout Cavalry✭

When AoE III came out, it was quite hardware-intensive for it's time. Visually, it looked great, but it was such a departure from AoK that it felt like a completely different series.

I think the 3-D aspect added a new layer of complexity. That, coupled with the seemingly much closer zoom, made things feel very different. Don't get me wrong, I had many hours clocked with AoE III and it was fun in its own ways. But for AoE IV I hope Relic doesn't make it too graphically intensive.

I would rather have AoE IV have huge maps and the ability to zoom out far, rather than have bleeding-edge visuals. Something along the lines of the textural detail of AoE: DE, but with the realistic physics / animations of AoE III, would be great.

Unit count probably factors into this as well. Realistically 500 is the absolute max that I think is manageable, but unit management has to be improved and optimized for huge armies (i.e. see my earlier post about combat realism). But with 2018 graphics the game would have to be very efficient.

Graphics preferences for AoE IV 42 votes

Yes, push the game to the limits of 2018 hardware!
42%
justastupidmanMisguidedMonk54nonlosojimmyFederalBean1265CostlierParrot3TheAuraMysticLiamIsBest1010NormChangerSqLZombieInsider97OXYDERZWailedMedusa427TealTwo6350lyotomaDrySweat134CharcoalGraph03SonicClock63324HatlessVermin99 18 votes
No, keep it simple
19%
TallestDavidSuperiumentariusqweytr24SpringPenny4779IamFarmerIamDalvSikoFoijsievers13 8 votes
Somewhere in-between: 3-D but able to run on mid-range hardware
38%
bubbleEmpAhmadKTeutonic_knightEininfarAugustusmanMehkindImTheRealSlayerFreedonianArrowmelihgulerUrbanizedGem684Vovchik NaletovmrmicahmooseheadVermi1lionHawkDLorDCrossdadvighiSaneStannis 16 votes

Comments

  • justastupidmanjustastupidman GermanyMember, Insider ✭Ox Cart✭
    Yes, push the game to the limits of 2018 hardware!

    Can't they push the game to the limits of 2018 hardware and keep it playable on mid-range hardware at the same time? That's how I'd prefer it.

  • Teutonic_knightTeutonic_knight AlaskaMember ✭Scout Cavalry✭
    Somewhere in-between: 3-D but able to run on mid-range hardware

    @justastupidman said:
    Can't they push the game to the limits of 2018 hardware and keep it playable on mid-range hardware at the same time? That's how I'd prefer it.

    As long as the higher-quality graphics setting don't cause game imbalances

  • LiamIsBest1010LiamIsBest1010 Member, Insider ✭Scout Cavalry✭
    Yes, push the game to the limits of 2018 hardware!

    I think that they should push the limits, but give gfx options to bring it down a lot. This would give everybody what they wanted.

  • qweytr24qweytr24 Member, Insider ✭Musketeer✭
    No, keep it simple

    In a RTS visual clarity is key. Too many unnecessary visual effects will just hurt performance and obscure the view from things that actually matter.

  • MehkindMehkind Member, Insider ✭Musketeer✭
    edited March 12
    Somewhere in-between: 3-D but able to run on mid-range hardware

    RTS is a primary PC genre so if the graphic is in between yet also satisfies the upper echelon crowd, it will sell more because it will reach more crowd. Let's face it, not everyone has money for high gaming rig :smile:

  • SikoFoiSikoFoi Member, Insider ✭Scout Cavalry✭
    No, keep it simple

    @qweytr24 said:
    In a RTS visual clarity is key. Too many unnecessary visual effects will just hurt performance and obscure the view from things that actually matter.

    I totally agree and I consider that AoEIII was nicely balanced on that matter.
    But years passed and I hope they will perform to have the same balance at a higher gaphic level :)

  • Pan CalvusPan Calvus Member, Insider ✭Musketeer✭

    Speaking as someone using mid-range 2012 hardware, and planning to use mid-range 2018 hardware until 2024 or so, I don't care that much about graphics. I understand I'm not the only person in the world and thus why good looking 3D is better from a marketing perspective though. I'm also fine with a low poly solution. As long as it looks clear, I can see what's going on. Bonus points if the game looks like a place that would put a smile on my face if I was there, you know, if there weren't like hundreds of people dying right now.

  • PCS70PCS70 NLMember, Insider ✭Musketeer✭

    Relic will use a slightly modified Essence 2.0 engine to develop AOE IV on. Here you can see a little bit what you can expect regarding the graphics quality.
    http://www.moddb.com/engines/essence-engine

  • nonlosojimmynonlosojimmy Member, Insider ✭Ox Cart✭
    Yes, push the game to the limits of 2018 hardware!

    @PCS70 said:
    Relic will use a slightly modified Essence 2.0 engine to develop AOE IV on. Here you can see a little bit what you can expect regarding the graphics quality.
    http://www.moddb.com/engines/essence-engine

    Source?

  • EininfarEininfar Member, Insider ✭Ox Cart✭
    Somewhere in-between: 3-D but able to run on mid-range hardware

    Pretty sure I read that they are going with their Essence engine, which is not surprising. 3d is almost certainly the way they'll go, as the DE games will cover the 2d bases. With that said, I don't think AOE games need to be on the very bleeding edge of visuals. Nice graphics, yeah, cool physics, sure, but it's more important that the game run well.

    What I do want, however, is clarity. One of the reasons I did not like Company of Heroes was that I found it hard to make out what was going on on-screen. Though I should clarify that I do not mean that I want them to go in the direction they did with DOW 3 (IE, way too far at the expense of the games ambiance).

  • PCS70PCS70 NLMember, Insider ✭Musketeer✭

    @nonlosojimmy said:

    @PCS70 said:
    Relic will use a slightly modified Essence 2.0 engine to develop AOE IV on. Here you can see a little bit what you can expect regarding the graphics quality.
    http://www.moddb.com/engines/essence-engine

    Source?

    I don't know exactly anymore where I read about modifying the 2.0 engine. It could be somewhere down this thread. But looking at their WarHammer series I think that engine comes closest though regarding to AOE RTS game style. The modifications will probably be implementing 4K, a different more AOE like GUI, and the ability to support more units.

    https://forums.ageofempires.com/discussion/15518/aoe-iv-uses-essence-engine-5

    I do love the performance of the bang! engine though. It's able to run smooth on very broad hardware specifications, but it's too old to continue new development on that I guess. It's in good hands know with Project Celeste.

  • IamDalvIamDalv Member, Insider ✭Ox Cart✭
    No, keep it simple

    Two things are very important to achieve:
    1) visual clarity, which is a problem in 3D RTS games;
    2) the networking code must NOT be based on peer to peer.

  • PCS70PCS70 NLMember, Insider ✭Musketeer✭

    @IamDalv said:
    Two things are very important to achieve:
    1) visual clarity, which is a problem in 3D RTS games;

    That's why the last updated bang! engine of AOE Online is so good whatever you may think of the game and more cartoonish style itself. Using simpler and less more the same textures improves general performance a lot.

    2) the networking code must NOT be based on peer to peer.

    I don't agree or at least not have a set opinion about that one, because there are some really big advantages using peer to peer too. Regardless using peer to peer or not people who suffer from bad connections or playing on WIFI will cause a lot of problems and programmatic challenges in general anyway.

    They SHOULD forbid playing online MP games on WIFI. ;)

  • TallestDavidTallestDavid Member, Insider ✭Scout Cavalry✭
    No, keep it simple

    yes! I love asymmetric graphics. age of empires DE is the best so far. I hated mythoilogy and aoe III graphics. :/ plus we can see more! in DE aoe I love the far zoom and how much we can see. in mythology aoe III when I switch to play those I wwas so blinded while playing :(

  • PCS70PCS70 NLMember, Insider ✭Musketeer✭

    @TallestDavid You probably mean isometric projection. The only way to display 3D graphics on a 2D screen. Combined with a special graphics card and shutter glasses technology it delivered the first real 3D experience found in PC gaming industry aka stereoscopic 3D long time ago already.

    https://www.ageofempires.com/news/age-empires-definitive-edition-3d-2d-game/

    It will take 'a few' more years before mainstream processors and GPU's are capable of doing this all in real time. That's actually what a real 3D engine does and the biggest difference between those and all currently used AOE engines.

  • ZombieInsider97ZombieInsider97 Member ✭Scout Cavalry✭
    edited March 15
    Yes, push the game to the limits of 2018 hardware!

    Like most games nowadays, a GTX 660 for minimum reqs would be great, that way most people will be able to play it, and a gtx 1080 for ultra settings. There's no reason for age 4 to be held back graphically by older systems. Age 3 already included the havok physics simulation middleware engine, which means that events such as building destruction and tree falls were not pre-created animations, but are calculated according to the physics engine. It would be dumb, to go back, like downgrading the game.

  • ZombieInsider97ZombieInsider97 Member ✭Scout Cavalry✭
    Yes, push the game to the limits of 2018 hardware!

    @PCS70 said:

    @nonlosojimmy said:

    @PCS70 said:
    Relic will use a slightly modified Essence 2.0 engine to develop AOE IV on. Here you can see a little bit what you can expect regarding the graphics quality.
    http://www.moddb.com/engines/essence-engine

    Source?

    I don't know exactly anymore where I read about modifying the 2.0 engine. It could be somewhere down this thread. But looking at their WarHammer series I think that engine comes closest though regarding to AOE RTS game style. The modifications will probably be implementing 4K, a different more AOE like GUI, and the ability to support more units.

    https://forums.ageofempires.com/discussion/15518/aoe-iv-uses-essence-engine-5

    I do love the performance of the bang! engine though. It's able to run smooth on very broad hardware specifications, but it's too old to continue new development on that I guess. It's in good hands know with Project Celeste.

    I guess they will either do that or develop an entirely new engine, in any case, Age 4 won't be so much similar to AOE 3, and even less 2, people should be expecting that, I mean that game came out 19 years ago, Age 4 won't be an AOE 2 reskin. Relic should push the limits, so the game won't have stupid engine limits.

  • Teutonic_knightTeutonic_knight AlaskaMember ✭Scout Cavalry✭
    Somewhere in-between: 3-D but able to run on mid-range hardware

    Another issue with graphics is that if you want really high population limits, I expect the graphics would need to be lower.

  • MEPHESTO2004MEPHESTO2004 Member ✭Scout Cavalry✭

    High graphics concern me. Given that there are many mid range to high end PCs that cant even run definitive edition without frame rate issues.

  • EaglemutEaglemut Member ✭Ox Cart✭

    The default zoom in AoE3 is not just different; it's simply terrible. First thing you should do upon opening the game is go to settings and change it all the way to max. Unfortunately, most of the default settings are really the opposite of optimal and should be toggled over.

  • bubblebubble Member, Insider ✭Ox Cart✭
    Somewhere in-between: 3-D but able to run on mid-range hardware

    @Eininfar said:
    Pretty sure I read that they are going with their Essence engine, which is not surprising. 3d is almost certainly the way they'll go, as the DE games will cover the 2d bases. With that said, I don't think AOE games need to be on the very bleeding edge of visuals. Nice graphics, yeah, cool physics, sure, but it's more important that the game run well.

    What I do want, however, is clarity. One of the reasons I did not like Company of Heroes was that I found it hard to make out what was going on on-screen. Though I should clarify that I do not mean that I want them to go in the direction they did with DOW 3 (IE, way too far at the expense of the games ambiance).

    agree. aoe4 needs crystal clear, crisp, slick and sick graphics that are easy on the eye. It needs to be easy to see whats going on. Im honestly a little worried they are using the essence engine. aom is cool because it uses the bang engine. You can make maps yourself and add triggers in the editor. you literally get developer tools. and I feel like they might restrict that in aoe4. lets hope they dont start selling scenarios for money like in aoeo

  • BAJOLIBAJOLI Member ✭Ox Cart✭

    One of the reasons Age of empires online failed because it's artwork only got a 5.5 from most reviewers.

    I want AOE4 to score at least a 9.0, which means at least an 8 for visuals.

    Make AOE4 extremely beautiful or fail.

  • Teutonic_knightTeutonic_knight AlaskaMember ✭Scout Cavalry✭
    Somewhere in-between: 3-D but able to run on mid-range hardware

    @BAJOLI said:
    One of the reasons Age of empires online failed because it's artwork only got a 5.5 from most reviewers.

    I want AOE4 to score at least a 9.0, which means at least an 8 for visuals.

    Make AOE4 extremely beautiful or fail.

    AoE Online technically had good "graphics" but had really "cartoonish" style, which made it seem like it was meant for 5 year olds. I agree it was terrible

    To be honest, I would be happy with the level of (textural) detail in AoE:DE. Even little things like farms are beautiful. It just needs to have a modern physics/graphics engine and lighting, which DE lacks since it still uses the original 2D engine.

  • BAJOLIBAJOLI Member ✭Ox Cart✭

    I actually read that a relic game insider was talking about a new updated game engine (essence 5.0 or something like that). It should be a good thing for aoe4 if it is done correctly.

  • AugustusmanAugustusman Member, Insider ✭Knight✭
    Somewhere in-between: 3-D but able to run on mid-range hardware

    @Teutonic_knight said:

    @BAJOLI said:
    One of the reasons Age of empires online failed because it's artwork only got a 5.5 from most reviewers.

    I want AOE4 to score at least a 9.0, which means at least an 8 for visuals.

    Make AOE4 extremely beautiful or fail.

    AoE Online technically had good "graphics" but had really "cartoonish" style, which made it seem like it was meant for 5 year olds. I agree it was terrible

    To be honest, I would be happy with the level of (textural) detail in AoE:DE. Even little things like farms are beautiful. It just needs to have a modern physics/graphics engine and lighting, which DE lacks since it still uses the original 2D engine.

    still better than this

  • UrbanizedGem684UrbanizedGem684 Member, Insider ✭Scout Cavalry✭
    Somewhere in-between: 3-D but able to run on mid-range hardware

    Please don't push this to any limits... the game should offer the very least a satisfying experience with an average computer.. not everyone has gaming machines or is willing to buy new ones to enjoy the game. 60$ are enough already.
    Most of us who still love the old titles are able to enjoy them on both quality graphics and great performance because they are old... ruining this balance completely will have a great negative impact..

  • AugustusmanAugustusman Member, Insider ✭Knight✭
    Somewhere in-between: 3-D but able to run on mid-range hardware

    Now i think pushing with all, with 2020 hardware and bad performance.

  • BAJOLIBAJOLI Member ✭Ox Cart✭

    @Augustusman said:

    @Teutonic_knight said:

    @BAJOLI said:
    One of the reasons Age of empires online failed because it's artwork only got a 5.5 from most reviewers.

    I want AOE4 to score at least a 9.0, which means at least an 8 for visuals.

    Make AOE4 extremely beautiful or fail.

    AoE Online technically had good "graphics" but had really "cartoonish" style, which made it seem like it was meant for 5 year olds. I agree it was terrible

    To be honest, I would be happy with the level of (textural) detail in AoE:DE. Even little things like farms are beautiful. It just needs to have a modern physics/graphics engine and lighting, which DE lacks since it still uses the original 2D engine.

    still better than this

    That screenshot is from a game called: "empires apart". It was made by two people who have more of a heart for old school RTS games than microsoft will ever have. The nations they put into empires apart are actually far more creative then most rts games.

    So it is easy to judge it on one screenshot, but it is actually cool that two programmers can make a game like that.

  • AugustusmanAugustusman Member, Insider ✭Knight✭
    Somewhere in-between: 3-D but able to run on mid-range hardware

    @BAJOLI said:

    @Augustusman said:

    @Teutonic_knight said:

    @BAJOLI said:
    One of the reasons Age of empires online failed because it's artwork only got a 5.5 from most reviewers.

    I want AOE4 to score at least a 9.0, which means at least an 8 for visuals.

    Make AOE4 extremely beautiful or fail.

    AoE Online technically had good "graphics" but had really "cartoonish" style, which made it seem like it was meant for 5 year olds. I agree it was terrible

    To be honest, I would be happy with the level of (textural) detail in AoE:DE. Even little things like farms are beautiful. It just needs to have a modern physics/graphics engine and lighting, which DE lacks since it still uses the original 2D engine.

    still better than this

    That screenshot is from a game called: "empires apart". It was made by two people who have more of a heart for old school RTS games than microsoft will ever have. The nations they put into empires apart are actually far more creative then most rts games.

    So it is easy to judge it on one screenshot, but it is actually cool that two programmers can make a game like that.

    Was made by 3 guys, that not listen to the people and launch the game in early poor stage.
    The Publisher try to buy influencers to sell this crap.

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