1500+ hours playing Malians, But... (Tweaks)

I think this hurts their champskarls too much. You want that hp over the dps. So instead they become a more cavalry orientated civ? When we have tons and tons of those.

I don’t understand what you are trying to achieve?

Make malians more generic? Why? Go play another civ if you’re tired of them

not a chance. Don’t just say random stuff and assume people to support you. Why aren’t Burmese and Aztecs the best infantry if damage is more important? Especially more important than 17% more hp.

Imo malians should get farms affected by wood discount and MAYBE get halbs back, . MAYBE buff gbeto damage by +1.

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I wasn’t trying to buff the malians. I just think 2Hers would be more fun.

And also, Malian Champions lose to Generic 2Hers so you saying they would be weaker is untrue.

What i’m proposing is that they be slightly better vs Infantry and Cavalry.

The best Infantry is Goths because they have the best possible bonus which is cheaper units on top of fast producing. A strawman argument to attack a point you made up. I’m not trying to buff them. I’m trying to make them even more fun than they already are.

What about a civ that sacrifices being fully upgraded in exchange for easy transitions and a diverse army is generic? There are currently no civs that do it like the Malians do. (Only 2 fully upgraded units total.)

Malian Champions and generic 2HS both need 6 hits to kill each other. Whoever gets the first hit will win.

So really they aren’t getting nerfed by losing the upgrade in exchange for blast furnace.

Not having to pay for the Champion upgrade for what is essentially a functional equivalent is a ‘buff’ in my eyes.

Bumping for visibility. I am quite passionate about the civ and want more opinions if possible. I’ve thought about these changes for years and I still believe they would make the civ a great deal more fun to play than they already are.

Do you live in a cave?

Is 2024 and Malians got massively buffed last year, some even argue the civ got overbuffed and they are now bringing some powercreep to the game.

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Do you live in a cave?

Is 2024 and Malians got massively buffed last year, some even argue the civ got overbuffed and they are now bringing some powercreep to the game.

What does this have to do with my post?

I think hes saying that making Malians ecen more versatile is a bad idea when they are so strong

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Hmm. Yes I suppose that makes sense. While they would on paper be roughly equal in strength. Additional options would be a buff no matter how you slice it. Perhaps a nerf would be in order to compensate.

The original post talks about tweaks not necessarily overall buff. And Malians certainly didn’t bring any power creep. They just got back the benefit they had before Dotd. Mongol and Frank pickers hyped and complained like they usually do against any civ that does well against the civ they pick. Fortunately it didn’t get over nerfed like Gurjaras.

Way to make Gbeto useless. They already have terrible armour and you want to reduce their attack? The whole point of Gbeto is the high attack.

Their attack would remain the same.

No it wouldn’t. Because by hiding Gbeto’s attack behind imperial age Blast Furnace you would be killing their castle age power spike, which will allow archer players time to get their own power spike of Arbalest in early imperial and absolutely shred them. Even castle age crossbows shred them, so Arbalest with chemistry would be a joke. This change would be horrible. Leave Gbeto alone, they’re fine as they are.

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Which is why I said ELITE.

But honestly. maybe -1 attack would be better anyway. so +1 attack with blast furnace.

Wasn’t clear from your post that you meant Elite. Because first you said Elite then you said Gbeto. Anyway, I don’t think it would be necessary to reduce the Elite attack at all, even with Blast Furnace. Because they still have terrible armour and they are also micro-intensive, which is fine in Castle Age with lower numbers but just becomes unmanageable in big battles in imperial age, so they would still die hard to typical imperial counters like arbalest (which are cheaper and out-range them) and other high attack units like Paladin and Onagers. This is why you rarely see mass Elite Gbeto in competitive games.

The issue with adding Blast Furnace isn’t really about Gbeto. It’s more to do with how it would affect Cavalry when combined with Farimba. Malian Light Cav already have the same attack as Elite Magyar Huszar, so adding Blast Furnace would make 80 farm Light Cav spam in the late game totally unbearable. And even without Blast Furnace, Malian Cavalier already have +19 attack, so the only cavalry in the game with higher attack is Franks/Teutons/Lithuanian Paladins. Adding Blast Furnace on top of that is just gonna make their cavalry so oppressive.

I do share your love for Malians though. They’re by far my most picked civ. I’ve played over 400 games with them according to the stats.

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Yeah that’s why I had farimba reduced by 2 attack. Even just +1 attack on light cav would be absurdly strong.