1v1 only players don't understand game balance

The argument I am going to make stems from the following axiom:

The game should be balanced in a way that most people can enjoy their preferred play style, over the largest variety of game styles and maps available. Moreover, this should be done while keeping the feeling of AoE2, whatever that means to most people.

I don’t think most of you should disagree with this premise. If we can, let’s make everybody happy. Now, let’s see how many games were played on different maps, and how the distribution is. I will use the data from aoestats.io.

1v1 games: Total games played = 617,700
Arabia: 52%, Arena: 16%, Megarandom: 8.78%, Gold Rush: 2.9%

Team games: 390,088
Arena: 23.6%, Arabia: 16.88%, Black Forest: 14.3%, Nomad: 13.24%

It should be clear that for every 3 games played in 1v1, 2 games are played on team games. Clearly, team games form a pretty large subset of the AoE2 community. More importantly, you see a lot more map variety in team games. Arabia is only played 16% as compared to the 50% on 1v1s. All this is to say, There are a lot of people playing these games, and we should try to accommodate them in balance changes.

Now, coming to the main topic, 1v1 players certainly understand 1v1 balance. There are strategies, timings, counter units, etc, which is important for 1v1 play. However, if you only play 1v1s, you only understand around 60% of what balance means. If you only play 1v1 arabia, it’s half of that.

Sure, there’s a lot of transfer or knowledge, but you don’t know what to do when 60 persian war elephants come at you if you only play 1v1s. You won’t know how to watch out for, and to track, 3 different armies. You won’t know how to deal with the absolute chaos of 8 different armies going at each other, each with their own units and compositions, You won’t know when to set up trade, how to balance and protect trade, and how to suppress opponent’s trade by co-ordinating with other people in your team.

If you only play arabia and arena, you don’t know anything about how water works. And, to repeat, there’s a large section of the community that do play water maps. And don’t say some #### #### about tournaments, because not only were there two large team game tournaments this year, but tournaments usually have a lot of maps which have nothing to do with arabia. T90’s titan’s league this time doesn’t include arabia at all.

If you want to understand the game in its entirety, and what balance means, you need to cover at least 80% of what happens imo. You need to know how people experience this game in different ways, and what people find joy in. So, you need to play open maps, closed maps, 1v1s, team games, and everything in between. Or don’t. But then, don’t take an elitist attitude and ignore one of the largest parts of this community. Fin.


Yeah, obviously, because you only get one map ban. So it just means team game players have to play maps they don’t like a lot more frequently than 1v1 players do. It’s not because they like experimenting with more diverse maps or strategies. Give team games the same amount of bans as 1v1 and the map stats would be really similar to 1v1.


Except each player gets one. Meaning, a total of 6-8 bans which is at least as much as 1v1s. Also, this is just a minor, tangential point which is sort of irrelevant to the full discussion.

1v1 players don’t know how to deal with elephants? You sure about that? If that’s true, why do we rarely see elephants on 1v1 open maps? Good 1v1 players would never let their opponent boom into 60 persian elephants without constantly attacking in Feudal / Castle or scouting for stables. Being suddenly surprised by 60 elephants means you’ve already seriously messed up your scouting and aggression long before the elephants arrived.

You shouldn’t need to track 3 or 4 different armies if your team is working properly and communicating effectively.

Ok, this I agree with to some extent. Team Game players will obviously be better at trade because it doesn’t exist 1v1. But the principle of attacking it is the same. Raiding the trade route is not that different from raiding villagers. But I could think many more situations where team game only players would struggle 1v1.

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Is that what I said? Did I say that 1v1 players don’t know how to deal with elephants? Read that again. Also, how are you supposed to scout in black forest? Or michi? Through god’s vision? Stream sniping? Also, it isn’t that hard to make like 20-30 elephants in the back as long the front can hold. Something tells me that you haven’t played a lot of BF team games.

Which doesn’t happen that often when you are playing with randos. You can usually say “i’m scout rushing, you make archers”. You can flare. That’s about it.

It is, obviously. Trade carts are not just faster, they also don’t stay put it one place like vils do. Also, timing is way more important for cart sniping. If you manage to get them early, you can end the game then and there. If they have a stable 40 cart trade, they can replenish the carts easily.


Yes, you did, and it was senseless. A direct quote:

I only play 1v1 because of hardware limitations and I know perfectly well how to counter elephants.


I said they don’t kniw how to deal with 60 elephants. Either you don’t know the difference, or you are acting in bad faith.

Anyone can counter 3 elephants/elephant archer/war elephants. When they get to a critical mass though, that’s a different story.

Okay, you haven’t ever encoutered what I’m talking about. Why do you even talk about things you don’t know about? Whatever, keep believing what you like.

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not sure why you rage on those 1v1 players.

as a solo player, TG is just a game that I play in a super relaxed way.
I always pick flank and I have see lots of different situation that being a solo player is always expected 1v2.
Especially vs premade.
it’s true that some units you wont see them in large number in 1v1 games, but most of these OP combinations, I must tell you, is requiring several players cooperating to tackle it. it’s not about balancing, it’s about cooperation’s. (eg. you raised the war elephant as example, clearly there’s no way for a single player to handle that at all)

what’s the point to be that serious when the TG match up is so unfair right now?
and dont, dont ever force people to play water map.
I already hate these devs forcing players to play this map that maps, force people to do the random civs, force those solo players vs premade team, But, but allowing smurfs accounts anywhere in the multiplayer system.

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I’m not raging on anyone. To be clear, I don’t think that team game only players understand game balance, either. If you read the full post, you should know what.

My issue is when one side pretends that they know the other side completely. Like that dude how talked about encountering elephants in 1v1. 1v1 elephants and team game elephants are totally different beasts.

I completely agree. Team games require a slightly different set of skills. But, it is also about balance. If one team has, say, 25 houfnice with strong support, you aren’t killing that. You’ve just straight out lost. I don’t think such units should exist in the game. You should be able to handle every combination of units with another combination which is equally expensive.

What are you talking about? just looking at numbers, TGs are more balanced than 1v1s. aoestats - Age of Empires II Civilization Statistics
the highest and lowest win rates are far more balanced for team games.

When did I do that? I said that there is a section of players who do that.

I feel like you are putting a lot of words in my mouth. Why?


I didnt compare the civ win rate in 1v1 and TG.
But if you said TG civ win rate is more balance, that’s totally make sense because the civ doesnt even really affecting the win rate in most of the TGs. the match up way does.
so we clearly have different definition about “balancing”, you just solely looking on the civ win rate in TG, I am talking about the whole TG match up is non-sense that civs doesnt gives a shit to affect the win rate.

again, I am telling you, people just play 1v1 get a reason, because it’s the best balance mode in the game so far.

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For every 3 1v1 games, 2 team games are played. So, this isn’t even true. People play a LOT of team games. This is not including lobby games, which are usually team games. Considering that, the balance tilts more in the direction of team games.

I don’t understand what you mean. Can you elaborate?

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in a 1v1 game, if you have some low tier civ, let’s say bow civ like Briton in this patch of Arabia, since you are very likely matching a player with similar level. You have higher chance to lose. The civ stat reflecting what’s it is.

However, in a TG, no matter your civ is being countered, all you teammates choose the same civ without team bonus, you can still win the games easily because currently the TG matching is super bad. I think the other thread has also point out this very significant point: the civ win rate doest really affected its civ is balance or not, there are lots of different causes affecting the civ win rate instead of the civ balance.

  • map variations in TG
  • preamde vs solo
  • unfair elo matching
  • especially in TG, 1 civ advantages / disadvantages doesn’t affect much.

if u ask me, which player suggestion is better, 1v1 or tg players. i said both are not.

the top tier players do.
so clearly my advices arent important at all.

Here we start hitting the snag. You mixed regular elephants with elephant archers. Now you employ the tactic of moving the goalposts. Because I could reply to you that, in order to counter 60 elephants, I would need 60 halbardiers. But then, what would you defy me with? That there are also elephant archers in the composition? Or were you going to point out that there were skirmishers all along? Oh, yes; these kind of angst-induced troll topics are the kind I know very well.

I guess you have a particular distaste with 1 v. 1 games. Maybe they make you feel lonely and desperate, and then you come here and do everything in your power to discredit that kind of gamemode. As hard as it is to accept different realities, it’s also valuable. You learn from it.

Mind you, I have played lots of team games in Age HD, so I do know what I’m talking about. It’s only in DE where I’m restricted.

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In some ways, sure. But also seen lots of matching where the games are pretty well-balanced.

I can agree to some of these to some extend. But civ advantages/disadvantages absolutely do matter. Just as an example, Dravidians are bottom tier on arabia and even most closed maps. However, they are the top team game civ.

Eh, I think everyone who purchased the game and constantly play it have a say. That is you, and that is me.

Again, talking about stuff you don’t know. Play team games, or move on.

I don’t know why you are getting personal suddenly. That’s not welcome here.

You are making the conversation worse, and calling me a troll? Okay dude.


Not the same game. Also, the meta has evolved, and the balance is totally different. Considering all the #### #### you said, no. You don’t know team games. That’s fine, move on.

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Oh, I don’t know? Do tell us, what is the ever-so mysterious and complex subject that I don’t know? The counter for massed elephants? That’s a no-brainer. I insist that you are trying to vent your frustrarion and loneliness, so come on, let it all out.

Naah, I’ll just report and move on. Have a good day!

And for the record, you are just factually wrong here:

This is not just wrong, it is moronic. 60 war elephants will eat 60 halbs, especially in closed spaces. This why I said you don’t know team games.

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When you say “move on”, you mean you’re going to play more team games?

How about you first address the fact that you were ridiculously wrong on elephants vs halbs? 60 war elephants vs 60 halbs will leave around 50 war elephants alive.

I don’t have to defy you with anything. The war elephants will eat the halberdiers by themselves, no support needed.

Apologize, say that you are sorry, and be willing to learn. Then, we will talk.

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This is so funny because it’s in a closed space, like a tree corridor in black forest, where the halbardiers are sure to win the encounter. Only if the elephants surrounded the halbardiers do they have a minimal chance of success.