2+ hour games shouldn't happen!

Age of Empires II: DE II - Discussion
1

I just watched Hidden Cup Round of 16, Gregory VII vs Gajah Mada. Game 2, Georgians vs. Goths, was finally concluded after 2 hours and 15 minutes, after all the wood on the map was depleted and the Goth could no longer keep up Halberdier production and eventually succumbed to the Georgian’s better Scout line.

I’m not against these types of games ever happening, but, right now, they happen far too often, and AoE II isn’t the game where you want them to happen.

Every RTS game has its weaknesses. When watching Starcraft II, you sometimes feel like every game is like the other. A few drops, kill some workers, then someone attacks into the other’s third base and wins. But sometimes you get these hour-long games where you see lots of different late-game units and it’s awesome!

In Warcraft 3, sometimes you get these hour-long games and the heroes all get to really high levels and really powerful and it’s awesome!

In AoE II, sometimes you get these hour long games and it’s… really, really boring. Because, in AoE II, instead of the game escalating further in the late game, the power level shrinks back because both players run out of gold.

In the aforementioned game, the Goth player had the advantage for most of the game, but couldn’t quite put it in the bag. Castles become almost impossible to push and killed villagers can be easily replaced.

I feel like something has to be done to address this. I tuned out somewhere along the 1 hour 30 minute mark and only tuned back in when the game was over. I don’t feel like watching endless trash wars.

One possible way to do this is with different maps. These types of games wouldn’t happen on Gold Rush. Maybe more maps should have the “lots of gold in the center” feature.

Another way is something I have thought about for quite some time: There should be a trash siege unit. This would allow players to finish the game quicker when they gain the upper hand in a post-Imp trash war. The Ram is the obvious candidate. Change the Ram’s cost from 160 wood, 75 gold to 250 wood. This would be a massive change, but I don’t think it would break anything. Maybe some of the better Siege civ (Mongols, Celts) must have their bonuses on the Ram line nerfed a bit, but those are all solvable problems.

What do you think?

2

ther is something in the Game that could Help
enabel Wonder or relic Victory

3

neither of that would have made a difference. relics were 4:3. If either player had spent 1000 stone on a wonderthey would have had a castles less and died

the bigger issue is that Georgians can build fortified churches, which cost no stone and whose arrows deal pass-through damage. I hate the Georgian civ so much, it is badly designed in so many ways

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I mean, I don’t mind long games. (As long as there is resources remaining on the map, (a) player(s) are not completely out of the game, and refusing to resign.)

edit: I even watched/enjoyed the videos where T90 casted those noob games where 1v1 was ONLY allowed with 8 players. Those lasted for hours and I loved them. (probably not worth my time realistically but, I watched nonetheless.)

5

Fair point about the Georgians, but it’s not like these types of games don’t happen with other civs.

6

Mines in SC2 would also deplete, no?

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yes and no If you Look at the Game how IT was played i give you right both Option would make a different
but If both Option are ther from the start the the Player have more strategies to Go for from the start or they can Chance the plan mid Game . If the See they cant realy Push or attack Just drain Ressource then they can still Go for a Wonder and force the enemy to attack.
right now you can only win If the enemey give Up or ist completly killt

8

I think you need to voice your complaint with people designing maps for custom tournaments if you don’t like it when they run long.

9

The ladder map pool is no different in this regard.

10

:face_with_raised_eyebrow: :face_with_raised_eyebrow: :man_facepalming: :man_facepalming:
Pass-through damage is only for their Towers, for Town Centers, Castles and Fortified Churches is just +2 attack. (In that game there weren’t towers, nor the +2 attack had a major impact there).

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11

Have you considered playing more aggressive? Maybe not walling for two hours?

You can always resign when you feel you aren’t making any progress and/or when you don’t think you can win instead of stalling out games.

You have full control of whether or not you are in a two-hour game.

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12

That is the stupidest take I’ve read in a long while.

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Only tower arrows deal pass-through damage. Fortified Churches just have extra attack.

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14

Some people wouldn’t take kindly to such a remark, but I’ve seen worse, so whatever. I’d recommend not calling people names on the forums… but that’s a forum rules sort of thing, whatever.

Care to elaborate why you think my take is bad? I know you’re willing to put in the effort since your original post was 20+ lines long. You have full control as to whether or not you are in a two-hour game. Explain why I’m wrong.

15

You didn’t address my suggestion in any way, you didn’t tell me why it’s a bad idea or why it wouldn’t fix the issue I described. You blamed the tournament maps for the issue, and when I pointed out that this isn’t uniquely a tournament map issue, you insinuated that it’s only because of my own playstyle (which it isn’t and makes no sense, because, spoiler alert, I’m neither Gregory VII nor Gajah Mada) and basically told me a variant of “If you don’t like the game, don’t play it.”

You’re obviously not arguing in good faith and don’t warrant a serious response, even if you’re polite on a surface level.

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16

objectively it’s part of your playstyle.

If you’re in a game for 2+ hours than there will be no more gold on the map naturally unless you (and likely your opponent) has leaned heavily into trash units in order to save gold. The more you focus on trash in the earlier phases of the game, the longer that game will tend to run, assuming your opponent acts similarly.

You always have the option to saturate the gold and press for an earlier win, risking the possibility that your opponent will weather the storm and win in the lategame. You’ll get two hour games when neither you, nor your opponent is willing to commit to a more population-efficient army and press for a decisive edge.

You have full control as to whether or not you are in a two-hour game.

I warned you about insulting people on the forums once. The fact that you came back to do so immediately is disappointing.

17

Correct me if I’m wrong, but such long games in S-Tier tournaments are more exception than rule, right?

Also, don’t forget that AoE 2 runs at 1.7 speed, so G2 from that set was in reality 79 minutes long.

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18

I loved every second of that game. If you don’t like it, you don’t have to watch it.

And there is already a solution for people who don’t like their AoE2 like this, just put time limit or standard for victory condition and you will never ever get a long game like this. No need to buff siege units because some people hate that other people enjoy conquest games.

It’s T90’s tournament and if he wants it to be conquest victory condition, then it’s conquest victory condition in T90’s tournament. And as we’ve concluded, you’re not forced to watch it if you don’t like it.

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19

2hours game happens only in HC and the average lenght of a HC game is higher than another tournament just because T90 chose to artificially inflate the view count by choosing the least aggressive maps, and by the format itself that force players to study themselfs for a good chino of the game since they do not know eachother.

Effectively he wanted longer games because that’another thing that increase viewers

20

ah my mistake. still a stone-free defensive structure. who could have thought that this might be imbalanced

there have been games close to the 2 hour mark (or games close to it) in basically every tournament (except red bull, due to the timer). eg Yo-Tatoh in NAC V on Copenhagen was 1h50,

source?

this makes no sense whatsoever:
“least aggressive” maps like arabia, bay, cross and cup. sure mate
how would less aggressive maps even inflate the view count.

bullshit, low effort rage bait. do better

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