HI! as per the title, i have some questions regarding celts tech tree:
Would it be OP to give them squire? what’s the reason behind missing it? since Infantry is not a possible play in castle, what would be the harm in giving them Squire and tweak woad raiders speed accordingly to not be that faster (like 1.25/1.3 before squire)? it would truly make their identity as faster infantry, since atm they are just 5% faster than normal, and 5% on infantry is not as impactful as on cavalry for cumans for example.
What’s the point of giving them hussar and paladin when they lack bloodlines and final armor upgrade? the presence of paladin makes them lose bracer, and a paladin and hussar lacking the two most important upgrades really makes no sense to me
Would you be okay in changing UT castle tech for something more interesting and fun for their infantry? like adding a limited charge attack to woad raiders similar to urumi (but no splash) and coustiller to simulate the iconic charge or celtic infantry
it was merely an idea from the top of my mind, i would just like something more fun for their infantry besides 5% faster speed than anyone else which i think it’s very little after feudal age
Celts do not have Squires (+10%) because they have the +15% movement speed. Just like they do not get the last wood upgrade (+10%) because they got a +15% already, like the franks do not get bloodlines (+20) because they got +20%, and Cumans do not get husbandry (+10%) because they got +15%. I think the only exception is turks getting both the last gold upgrade (+15%) and their +20%, but I think it doesnt matter that much.
I think giving Squires to Celts would be fine for me, even though I am not really supporting it. Halberdiers would have 1.25 speed (similar to lituanians 1.2) and Champions would have 1.125 (similar to 1.16 for UU like Berzerks). We could then tweak woad raider to keep the same speed.
Celts did not lose Bracers because they got Paladins. Celts have no bracers to have weak cav archers. Celt Paladins are actually good against other cavary and non-halberdier infantry (like UU or champions). They do not need to have them fully upgraded to use them. There are other civs with bad hussars like Koreans. If we remove Hussars and Paladins from Celts, I would still support not giving them Bracers, Bloodlines, and the last armor upgrade
It may be nice to see another castle age UT, focussed on infantry. But I do not want charge attack or any kind of area of damage. Maybe a small HP regen of +5/min or +10% attack speed ? I don’t know, and I don’t mind keeping the current UT anyways
Yeah i know that but having 5% faster infantry is not as impactful as 5% Speed for cav like cumans, nor free bloodlines with a plus for franks, thus why i do not see a reason to remove squire.
Woads Speed would be tweaked of course to not be faster, but at least they would truly have the fastest infantry, since like you sayd, atm lithuanians, a cav civ, have faster Spears than the civ suppose to have fast infantry as identity
On bracer, they already have extremely weak CA not because they lack bracer, but cause they lack thumb ring
Also their paladin can beat maybe FU cavalier but that’s it. And they still cost much more than a cavalier
I like the suggestion of Attack Speed but that would steal a bit from japanese sadly, but in general It seem general consensus that celts Castle Age UT is weak and i would love to see it impact their infantry in some way
Celts don’t need any buff other than extending the Stronghold tech effect to Town Centers and that’s t.
Also, no, Squires will make their Infantry (especially woad raiders) way too strong at raiding.
Lol “way to strong at raiding” like no. It would make their champions move fast yeah, but with low PA and HP they still would be trash at raiding. And as another user pointed out, lithuanians already have faster Spears and they do not use them for raiding.
Woads would be tweaked to have the same speed After squire of course
I guess you don’t understand why are eagles considered the best at raiding, is because not only PA but also speed, and Lithuanians , guess what are lacking (Blast Furnace and Plate Barding).
As I said Celts are fine and don’t need buffs.
Celts Champion with squire would be both slower and still with less PA than Eagles, so would still be perfectly bad for raiding. Better than other Champions yes. “Good for raiding” not in the slightest. Woads are good for that because they have 1.4 Speed and 10 HP over Champion
1/- I don’t think giving them squire is a good idea. Woad raider are fast moving champion that have 10 more hp, 1 less melee armor et have to be made from a castle. If champion are 10% faster, woad raider kinda lose its purpose…
2/- Celtic paladin are for team games or for map where you have a lot of gold. Some player did use it effectively in some competitive game effectively. Hussars are great for raiding and to counter trash, even if they lack the last armor upgrade and bloodline.
3/- I find stronghold decent, as it help your castle/tower despite the lack of bracer. Plus, it means less overkill. Stronghold is a bogus UT, because celts don’t need anything more. I think maybe it could be changed to a tech affecting skirmisher, to give celts a way to deal with archer when there are no gold (and to counter these pesky mangudai). It would be appropriate considering the irish proficiency with darts.
are they though? They are marginally better than a Champion while costing more food
When I think about good infantry UUs, I think of Berserk (innate HP regen, more armor), Obuch (more armor, more HP), Huskarl (complements civ weakness well), Kamayuk (beats Champions hard if massed), Ghulam. Celts dont even make it into the top 5 and there are maybe 8-10 infantry UUs total. Woad Raider is the one area where Celts need buffs, like OP says, they already get trolled in the Stable geting Paladin without kwy upgrades and the extra 5% speed is also not very relevant. They are good ONLY at infantey and Siege, at least make their UU better.
I’ve always thought the idea of them having only a 5% speed boost over squires infantry was a little goofy. Not quite useless, but such a marginal advantage for an already slowish class of units. That said, 15% + squires seems a little excessive. My happy medium would be just to buff their infantry speed bonus to 17.5 or 20% faster (and no squires ofc), or even a staggered 5/10/15/20 per age. This would be low impact enough that it wouldn’t raise the power level of the civ much (Celts are in a strong place already), but it would at least help differentiate their infantry a little more from those of other civs.
That would be cool. I also considered lowering the increase to 10% and add then squire, for a Total of 20 %, but maybe a staggeted 10/15/20 would be good as well, or a flat and simple +20 % since feudal. It’s not as big of impact as 5% on cav aniway as i said earlier and would help their identity as nor lithuanians have faster spear than celts while bot even being an infantry civ
They already have a UT for siege. I would rather have something focused on infantry, even something small, bit just cooler than what web have now since i do not think you are going to play defensively anyway with celts and does not make up for bracer loss, and their infantry lack identity since their Speed advantage is abysmal After feudal age
5% extra speed is huge? What engagements does this turn around massively in Imperial age fights? I am all ears particularly when the civ is so predictable as well, I mean if they could do cavalry, archers OR infantry, then sure 5% infantry could be huge, but vs Celts right now if it reaches the late game, you ALWAYS know it will be Trebs + Woad Raiders, maybe a few Onagers (in 1v1).
In Team Games, we all know they are one of the top civs, but in 1v1s, Siege is not such a core component of army compositions, and Celts basically have nothing else to their shoulder, even Viking bonus, with no Halberdier but extra HP Champions seems like it puts Celts in a bad spot.
Fyi I think they are one of the strongest civs early game, probably best early game eco bonus, but in Imperial in 1v1s they struggle hard. I’m fine with them having a bad Castle age but then they need to be good again in Imperial with a good UU which at the moment they lack. Something like +1 attack on Elite Woads, for example, I doubt it will break the game, and Celts can use the help. I mean they cost 20f more than Champion and 5g more, and all they get for it is +10 HP (which is big but not THAT big) meanwhile losing melee armor (so vs melee units their 80 HP is telling the wrong story as they take more damage per hit), and a bit of speed. Also can only be produced from Castles…