The Tomahawk and Kanya Horseman are two staple units in the Haudenosaunee army (at least at the multiplayer level I play, which is admittedly not very high. I do play Extreme against AI), but both cost wood and the best the Haudenosaunee can do for an infinite source of wood in the late game is the infinite 500f/500w/500g card in IV. This is ridiculous. Even the Inca, who are not even that dependent on wood for their staple troops, have an infinite 1200w card in IV and an option to generate wood at the Community Plaza. The fact that the Haudenosaunee can spawn Travois and gather wood faster from trees simply does not offer an effective solution to this problem in long games. While this may not be an issue in 1v1, it definitely makes itself felt in longer team games.
I propose the simple solution of giving the Haudenosaunee a card in IV that changes the wood cost of their Tomahawks and Kanya Horsemen to a base gather rate equivalent amount of gold. So, if a Tomahawk normally costs 75f 25w, that would now change to 75f 27g (rounded down to compensate a tiny bit for the fact that their Estate economy sucks), since the base gather rate for gold from a mine is 10% higher than the base gather rate for wood from a tree. The Haudenosaunee do not have a strong late game gold economy, but at least they would then no longer have to rely on what is effectively a finite resource to them for some of their staple troops.
In fact, it is wrong to put the Incas as comparisons. Because they are OP and are favored by the production crew. Also, few civilizations can receive infinite resources in 4ages.
The European civs all have two factories. The Japanese have shrines, the Chinese can get a factory and the Porcelain tower and the Indians hardly have any important troops that cost wood, but they still have powerful infinite wood cards. The Aztecs admittedly struggle from a similar problem in their lack of reliable late game wood source, but their best troops do not cost wood. Ditto the Lakota. The Haudenosaunee are, in my opinion, by far the worst off in this comparison.
Almost every civilization can receive infinite resources in age 4?
Factories, mango groves, shrines all produce infinite wood
I mean the resource card, but when I think about it, you’re right.
Don’t they live in the forest?
Give them a new type of building, such as a logging yard,
Unlimited access to wood. Similar to a mill.
That is a another possibility. It would prevent the burden on their already weak Estate economy from becoming heavier and it could offer them an advantage, since all their earlier wood gathering upgrades could apply to gathering from the new building. It doesn’t even have to be an infinite building like a Mill - it could simply be some North American version of the Indian Mangrove, but with the option to construct it from Travois, maybe.
Cards that change the cost of units from wood into gold are generally a good idea.
Thinking of Spanish Pikeman too. I’d love to see them being more useful. Could be combined with one of the existing Pikeman buff cards they have. Or replacing the Tercio Tactics card because the effect is absolutely not fitting to the name.
Aztecs in general of course, but they have many problems.
Less of a problem with Asians as they either get enough wood or don’t need wood units anyway.
A quick and easy way to solve this issue would be to grant these civs a special mango grove cart in Age 4 which could be trained at the TC. The cart would not give infinite Wood, but it could be purchased at the TC for X Food or gold, and in that way the bonus for wood gathering would still apply.
IMO this would be better than having a card that changes the cost, since it would be map situational
Definitely the same infinite 1200W card that Incas get should be given to the Haudenosaunee.
All Warchief civs need a buff to their lategame. If the game design is supposed to make European civ economies outshine the Native American civs, then so be it. But at least give the Warchief civs more viability to stay in the fight longer.
Rarely do you see these civs in treaty games. It’s always European civs and some Asian dynasty ones.
I’m starting to think this would be a better option than the card, too. It solves the problem without disrupting the civ’s economic balance as much as the card would.
I haven’t done the math, but I get the feeling the 1200w card won’t be enough for the Haudenosaunee. The Inca at least have the trickle they can generate from the Community plaza to supplement their late game wood supply. For the Haudenosaunee, think an infinite shipment Mangrove-like wagon with 2000w or the ability to train one would be better.
You normally run out of cards in lategame quicker than you run out of wood.
If you have to kill more than 1000 units to get 1 shipment than those 1200 wood won’t help that much.
Rebalancing the card costs in late game, especially for Revolutions is a separate issue.
Yeah, those infinite Fort cards. . . But that is different problem altogether indeed.
Doesn’t help much to turtle when your enemy can go Imperial and get 50% more everything.