A list of all the "speedy" infantry units which inevitably had to be nerfed

Age of Empires III: DE III - Discussion
1

It’s kind of crazy how almost every time there was a new, OP strategy in DE, it was somehow related to the fact that civ designers decided to make a “speedy” infantry unit, which subsequently had its speed reduced after backlash. I don’t understand what the obsession is with this. I think it needs to be emphasized just how strong speed is for infantry units, especially skirmisher type units. The ability to rapidly advance and retreat just exponentially multiplies a ranged unit’s effectiveness, in ways that I don’t feel are ever fully taken into consideration.

Speed lets infantry escape from fights they should get caught in, and hunt down units that should be able to flee. It lets them dodge artillery shots more easily, and kite cavalry more easily. Kiting is possibly the strongest micro tactic in the game. It can shift a fight 180 degrees, from an easy clean up to a devastating loss if the person kites well. Speed makes kiting far easier and even more effective. Speedy skirmishers are so devastating because they have so much DPS, but their only weakness, fragility, is massively offset by the ability to kite and retreat well.

Here’s a list, help me add any that I’ve missed:

  1. Initial Caroleans who ran faster all the time in melee mode - completely broken, quickly changed
  2. Inca unit speed upgrades, which I think have been nerfed, but maybe I am wrong? I recall early Inca pikes and bowmen being very fast
  3. Early USA state militia were quite speedy. They were strelet sprinters. Nerfed.
  4. Gascenya were faster than normal muskets on release of Africa civs. Nerfed.
  5. Salteadores were faster than normal skirmishers on release of Mexico as well. Nerfed.
  6. Now we arrive at Italy, where Bersaglieres are faster than normal skirmishers, and what do you know, they are completely, absolutely, 100% broken, especially since they shadowtech to Age 4 and go hand-in-hand with an unstoppable, strong eco FI.
  7. I think there are also some native units that are speedy now currently, but I am not sure.

This design idea goes back to TAD, it’s not entirely the DE team’s invention. Ashigarus were the first “speedy” infantry apart from Fusiliers. They also had their speed nerfed at some point during TAD I believe.

Why are “speedy” infantry units constantly being added in new content? It seems like by now there is a clear pattern: 1. speedy infantry unit is introduced, 2. the civ with the speedy infantry unit takes over the ladder and makes the civ completely broken, and 3. the speedy unit is nerfed

Civ designers should take a lesson from this pattern and stop proposing and making speedy infantry units. Save yourself some time, and the trouble of inevitably nerfing the unit later on. They are seriously the worst and most annoying part of DE, which is otherwise a great game.

Just let infantry be infantry; it’s supposed to be a medium speed unit (artillery=slow, cav = fast). If you reallllly want fast infantry, the way to do it is like with Fusiliers-- they are extremely expensive and fun occasionally, but never something that is the core of a composition.

7 Likes
2

that honor goes to skirms I think which had 5 speed orginally iirc and was nerfed for obvious reasons.

Also Aenna which would have came out before TAD

and ashi never got changed speed wise only their sky high attack

no , they do have 2 speed upgrade cards but the combined effect is only 15% so its arguably the same as sending advance arsenal

just want to note that they are still faster, just not that faster

there are also a bunch of “speedy” infantry that are not considered busted and I think its more the need to figure out where the balance is

  • CKN (4.5)
  • Fulani (4.5)
  • otontin slingers (4.5)
  • Aenna (OG 5 speed light infantry) - not broken before that recent change
  • Cetan Bow (4.5)
  • Cassador (4.5)
  • the sharpshooter (4.5) (though might be op in certain situations)

the problem the devs will face is that as they add more stuff, the possible baseline for not broken stats will be smaller and they will just hit a lot more duds (ie broken) then sweet spots if they want to experiment and basically everything that is kinda a sane change is sorta take already

Super cheap, fast but short range - take by strelet
Cheap, normal range - Arquebusier
better in every way but slightly more expensive - Gurkha
fast but frail - Cassador
Super high DPS, cheap and fast but shit animation - Aenna, Cetan and slighers ( and we are probably never doing that shit of an animation again)
Super cheap, decent range and fast? CKN

The devs will try to make some form of a speed unit work cause that is a niche that is not filled, they will probably fail but they will try

1 Like
3

How are they fast with 4 speed?? Unlike other civs India has not got drummers or similar

1 Like
4

sorry was just thinking of different niches of skirm, wasnt thinking about speed there

5

Squamiger speaks the truth, a speedy ranged infantry unit used to be an exceptional gift to a civ, usually with significant drawbacks. Ashi were the first major one to break that rule, albeit that ashi are genuinely trash vs cav in age 2 for their cost.

Fast forward to de and every new civ has some overly fast infantry unit. In fact, the 4 speed infantry are more the exception than the standard. We got (as mainline units)

Caroleans, bolas, gascenya, fulani, most of usa’s roster, salteadors, bergs, nizam.

And thats just mainline units. off the top of my head i dont remember if jungle archers and not-hoop-throwers are fast too.

Now we even have a speedy gren for otto, and a speedy skirm/musk/pike hybrid unit for dirt cheap. 4.5 speed is the absolute new norm and civs without drummers and leftover tad infantry stats (like haud, india) are feeling more and more sluggish.

(Archers are ok to be a bit faster at the cost of trash animations and shorter range generally.)

Its the 4.5+ speed ranged heavy infantry that keeps beating weaker skirms that is especially frustrating.

edit: yup, as expected not-hoop-throwers and jungle archers are faster than 4 speed. totally shocking

7 Likes
6

Barbary revolution “Corsair Marksmen” used to be 5.5 speed, nerfed in Update 13.27885 (last October) to be 4.5 speed.

Also Fusiliers used to be 5.5 speed and are now 5 speed, also in October patch.

Dahomey Amazons (skirm-type) had 5.5 speed and are now 5.25 speed.

1 Like
7

shoutout to maigadi for being 4 speed

8

100% agree the japanese tactic of the 8 musketeer sprint across your base to kill vills was SO op

9

yeah that line they have learned their last lesson with the gascenya I think, the newer stuff after that like the natives and sentinels are all 4.25.

Basically 5 is always too much for mainline for any range infantry, 4.5 is too much for musket type (cough azaps cough)

And dutch skirms are too slow

1 Like
10

Cruzob Infantry used to be 5 speed musks, now they’re 4 speed (but still 18+ range).

11

Wait Cruzobs have 18 range? I need to play Maya…

12

7nx9x6
7nx9x6500×512 67 KB

i have made a meme for this

3 Likes