A reminder how broken Turks are on arena and need nerfs here

Just 150w increase of Artillery cost can even do anything? It still be too cheap in my eye.
That cost should be comparable to Houfnice cost (950f 750g, you can see how current Artillery cost is ridiculously cheap, also Bohemians even have to pay for chemistry compared to Turks.). 14 range 100HP BBC is better than Houfnice in many situation and it also benefit BBT.
I would say artillery need to be 800w 650g at least.

It would be fine but I wonder Free gold BL too much for super-open map where scout is already too strong in Feudal. It would be dangerous to giving more buff for Turks feudal BL scout that can tank 65 arrows.
If it just confine to stable unit line upgrade which exclude BL. It would be fine to nerf LC line and buffing their cavalier, camel play.

On open maps Turks need something vs archers, and having goldless bloodlines helps going Scouts into Archers so Turks can hold up on there.

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There is already 1 extra PA for feudal scout so the 0 gold Bloodlines could be OP in the feudal.

Maybe making land unit upgrade -50% gold rather than Stable techs -100% gold could be the another option.

I think premise of +1PA bonus for scout in Feudal age is no other bonus benefiting their feudal scout play. Scout basically invincible to arrow means civ without BL need to go Castle age or Full wall to counter that (Massing spear which is too weak unit other than facing scout is already uphill battle).

It makes them saving too much gold. I don’t think they even need cheaper HCA upgrade.

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Free LC and Hussar is also removed.

But Bohemians have SE and Houfnice also gets +1PA as well as extra attack and blast radius.

Can’t deny that. In fact I’d say I’ll choose Turks BBC over Houfnice in most situations. But extra attack including SE for extra damage on building and blast radius worth more than that. Turks BBC needs way more micro then Houfnice.

I’m okay with wood one. But gold is a bit too much imo.

They have zero eco behind scout rush as removing gold cost from BL means their faster gold miners are almost useless for scout rush. All of those super-open maps favors a civ with strong early food bonus as well as good scout. Mongols, Magyars, Franks, Gurjaras, Hindustanis, Bulgarians, Lithuanians will still dominate. Even Huns is not the best choice on those maps and Turks will be far behind them.

I always wanted the bonus starts from Castle Age. Editing my previous reply now. Also increasing Artillery cost by 300w/100g now.

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So you want Turks to be even way more worse then they are on open maps as well… How would you counter archer civs without even eskirms ?

Honestly, feudal scouts are still very likely to be OP with no gold Bloodlines even without extra PA.
When the player has 4 or more scouts, spending 150 food to research Bloodlines is more powerful than training 2 more scouts.

So far I think saving food helps Turks on open maps more than saving gold, especially since they also have mining bonuses. We can lower their cost to use cavalry and CA (and even crossbowmen) on open maps. Also, since you’re postponing 1 PA, maybe:

  • Scout Cavalry line upgrade free → Barrack, Stable, and Archery Range unit upgrades -50% food cost.
  • Scout Cavalry line +1PA → Stable units +1 PA in the Imperial Age.

I disagree. It is only 100 gold that you will use to go up to Castle. Not that much for scout.

Right. I also thought cheaper upgrade for BL, LC and Hussar upgrade, TR and PT.

But that’s a big nerf in Castle age without E.Skirms.

Adding Barracks unit upgrades which is only militia line seems out of their design.

T90 agree that Artillery might be more expensive than now because is too cheap.

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Ironic that Viper was the one advocating for stone cost of artillery to be removed, and devs followed immediately

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This game shows that Turks are not that strong . Turk bbc is nothing compared to Bohemian ones. Also Turks are exactly helpless having no pike no eskirm no arbalast no paladin . Even with 5 relic Turks with VIPER barely won …Just barely…
For me Turks even need slight buffs.

Don’t know what are you talking about but if you saw it Viper got Artillery much way before Barles got Houfnice, and that’s on top of not needing Chemistry to get Bombard Cannons, free 25% extra HP and 25% faster training time, check game above and that shows how absurd is such timing while Houfnice takes way more res and time to get.
If you want Turks better on open maps they need to be nerfed on closed maps first :point_left:
Another game and see how insane Jannissaries are in castle age:

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They are Turks only powerhouse given the fact that no reliable eco bonus…Jans countered by xbows and skirms if u cant micro them 7/24 but if u micro jans then they are monster…Its like gamble in most cases.
Bohemians have Eskirms , Halbs better HC’s and Houfnice is way stronger then Turks BBC … For me Turks are just ok… Nerfing Turks will make them return their being worst civ for about 18 years xD 11
If any simple thing is to be nerfed about Turcs then it must be buff and nerf. Artielly cost can be increased then Elite Janns cost should be decreased. Something like this.
Lets say Artielly cost 550g 800w
But EJans cost 550g 650f

Power creep… instead of nerfing houfnice as all in all of all bbc bonuses one even doesnt need a castle for

Attila, please actually try playing the game, are reading a single website that records statistics for the game.

If you think the civ that doesn’t drop out of the top 6 across all ELO brackets need a “slight buffs” you are very misinformed.

maybe read the FAQ of that website:

“Stats last updated: 27/10/2021 at 00:36 UTC”

last data is from patch 50292, this should be evident from the fact that it still lists Indians, and that Poles and Bohemians (two very strong Arena civs) aren’t listed


This site hasnt been updated for a while. For 1v1, AOE pulse is the new reference. I don’t know any up-to-date site providing MP stats though.

Anyways, Turcs are a top pick on Arena across all ELO > 1000 (highest pick rate with 6% to 8%, high win rate 55% to 65%) and second highest pick rate (behind Franks) below 1000 ELO.
On arabia, they are 8th worst win rate with nearly 46%, which falls within the desired 45% to 55% interval.
Across all maps the average (weighted) win rate is 52.7%, which is the second highest.

This is only the point of view of Turk mains. Other players have at least heard about Koreans.

Okay, but it would only matter if it changed the results but Turks are still in top 6 across all ELO brackets. In fact this only makes the point stronger as they are undisputed best 1650+ ELO with a 4% margin over Bohemians.

Maybe you should research ballistics, that way your posts might find their mark :slight_smile:

at no point did I talk about whether or not Turks are OP/need a nerf. I merely pointed out that the data you posted is out of date and can therefore be disregarded.

you can fuck right off with you ad-hominem attacks (how did this escape the censor?)

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How is it an ad hominem? You and I both agree that your post is going after the fact the data is out of date. My comment is pointing out that your comment is irrelevant as the data hasn’t changed in more recent patches, therefore missing-the-mark of a post that would counter my post, hence needing ballistics.

Unless you are a hobbyist archer and took the comment literally?