It is obviously game breaking if a unit which normally belongs to age4 can be sent in age3.
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I don’t see people use Incas to their full potential like using non-slowed down Stealth runners to hit artillery. They just rather do nothing instead of trying to figure out ways to counter things.
Two of your points are counterproductive. They don’t have a unit with more than 21 range… then next point is, they have a 32 range light cannon.
So which one is it? Do they not have a unit more than 21 range or do they?
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They have light cannons but only with a big button. So once they lose the light canons, they have no unit with more than 21 range.
Stealth Runners are not going to have effective engagements if opponent has a reasonable positioning, in this regard, we can’t consider stealth runners as an anti artillery unit nor a siege unit eventhough they perform fine when they could engage. or attacking behind walls would just turn Inca units to be useless.
They are not, as you can see, the light cannon big button is not infinite, basicly you can’t count it as an Inca unit since after it dies you won’t have any siege/anti artillery troop anymore, their best range is 21 against atleast 26 range artillery, this potentially will make any strategy behind walls indeed affactive against Inca, (same applies for Sioux) I also suggested moving the bigbutton to age IV, as the result, it’s not possible to say there are counterproductive points.
So what do High level Inca players do? Just completely get stomped to artillery or do they learn, adapt, overcome, and win?
Isn’t it ok that civ has strong and weak points? You can create the same topic about any civ in the game. Yeah, Inca units are not the best (not the worst either), but they have tons of strong defensive buildings and arguably broken late-game upgrades. Maybe it hard to learn to focus on early aggression and building eco at the same time, but it only because Inca able to mix early aggression and a good eco.
Inca one of the strongest civ at the moment if you have enough experience with them, especially in team games, I’ll rather say they should nerf/rework them a bit (they have a couple of broken mechanics for sure) than buff.
I don’t have a lot to say about the Incan, but I saw reference to the Lakota and I want to say this - don’t give them arrow knight mercenaries. It wouldn’t thematically make sense.
If the Lakota need an artillery-range siege unit, give them cards to upgrade the range of the Cetan Bow and change it into a late-game artillery siege unit if you must. However, they don’t particularly need the unit class because cavalry inherently are good counters to siege due to their relatively higher health pools and the fact that many, many, many ranged units have negative multipliers into heavy cavalry units, and Tokala Soldiers in particular are terrifying to fight.
arguably broken late-game upgrades
What Upgrades are broken…?
thats a really bad idea. Basically you said it one sentence further up. Having anti artillery is important in this game. THOSE cannons are the only culiverines you got.
If the enemy is good and really defends his cannons with alot of units, your chimus wont reach them until age 4 / stealth without sacrificing like 50 of them (that 5k res!)
So you NEED those field cannons in age 3 to stop the falconet shipment / other produced cannons. i would rather have them be trained at fort then move them to age 4.
Age 4 is too late for many 1v1s most of my 1v1 dont end up in age 4, but in age 2 or 3. (10-15min) i need an answer if i get pushed with 2-5 falconets. That answer isnt huraca because they got way too low hp (falconet 1 shot) and to less range to work as a culverine. They are more like abu guns without the multiplier to heavy infantry lol.
At least the age 4 upgrade card (which costs additional 1500 gold) should give them 28 range, so they have a chance to shoot FIRST before they all die to a battery of 2+ falc shots.
Personally i would like to see the huraca on pop 1, because at the moment its a worse abu gun but 1 age later with less upgrade cards (abu guns can get over 60 siege and more HP and have instant shooting instead of aimtime / delay until firing).
Jungle Bowman struggle from early on, cause they are ROF 3.0 and only 90 hp / 20 range resist. You can beat them easy with any infantry with more then 4 speed. As inca you have to play the speed card to have a chance to kite against 4,5 speed muskes.
Just compare to sepoy / ashigaru / janissary or the op caroleans. You have to play 2 upgrade cards to make them countering their designated target (poison upgrade + age 3 1000 gold shipment which improves the bonus dmg)
To be honest they should have the 2,75 bonus dmg right away or included in their subpar poison dmg upgrade card (which does almost nothing to other light infantry). For having such a low base DPS (15 dmg every 3 Seconds → 5 DPS or 8,75 vs heavy inf + poison).
Most archers attack at a rate of fire of 1,5 and have more then double the DPS if they are allowed to fire. Just try 20 vs 20 bowman vs carolinger without upgrades on an open field. If both player micro and he switches to melee mode and splits, you cant kite that shit. using expensive pikeman (120 each) or chimus (which get killed on range fast) doenst really work, you have to hope he wastes his army in your base, having a fast production and using alot more units or hold on into your age 3 upgrade cards.
i did in a match yesterday and won after 40 mins. But even if the swedish player wasted his cannons (i couldnt get those if he just sits his 40 caroleans on TOP of the cannons with explorer nearby insteat of going half a screen INFRONT of his cannons). he still was a scary enemy because my bowman PLUS my chimus barely can keep up to his remaining caroleans in melee mode (AFTER he wasted his cannons).
So yeah its possible if your enemy doesnt watch his army, but actually its much easier to sit down on your cannons with 30+ musks then to get those cannons with 30 chimus. Stealth doenst work if he has an explorer around.
No, they still try but realisticly it isn’t ideal for a civ to lack one of the main aspects of the game. It just doesn’t make any reasonable sense for a competitive game.
Again, you can’t consider runners as an anti artillery or as a siege unit, if a player could manage to micro against them properly, it’s hardly possible to kill artilleriy for inca, and considering a melee unit as an anti artillery doesn’t have reasonable basis.
I can’t confirm it, the light cannon in age III is just so strong and should be moved to age IV, it’s overpowered for an age III button. and yet we can’t consider light cannons as an anti artillery unit as they will die and you won’t able to have them anymore. Inca needs some persistent solution in terms of having a real siege unit with decent range and an anti artillery unit. In this regard arrow knights mercenary shipment stuff would suit it very well.
How is the Big Button overpowered??! You pay the same amount in gold as all other civs fo a connon. Plus you need the stronghold for 350 coin. You save 400 wodd, but still… Its almost 2k in gold for 4 light cannons once per game. Wooow, so OP!! lol
The button isn’t OP at all, but the cannons being able to garrison on the stronghold kinda is
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Too much building HP upgrades, they should at least remove improved buildings upgrade, and maybe nerf monumental arch or town ceremony. Having TCs with 30k hp isn’t ok.
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Stealth is broken in this game (there are no unlimited buildings that can reveal stealth, that is necessary if you adding stealth units), and having stealth upgrades is broken even more. Can’t imagine how you should defend Inca’s raids after cloud warriors card was sent.
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Coin and food trickles from buildings, in summary, they are a bit smaller than dutch has with all banks. But for dutch you need to send 4 cards to reach this tickle rate, have a 10% speed penalty for military, and you have only 50 vills build limit, seems unfair. Food trickle should be reduced to 0.3/0.6 or buffed to 0.6 but without an ability to upgrade it further more. And coin trickle should be active only if there are at least 6 vills working on plantation.
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9 TCs a bit too much (especially with all buffs Inca can have), should be 5-6 at the maximum
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Chasqui in imperial age actually removes the ability to use mercs efficiently vs Incas, yeah, there are can be only 10 of them, but they have ~300 damage (more than ninja!) against mercs, pretty cheap, fast, and can stealth, it too efficient even for the direct counter unit. For me, their damage should be like 25-30 in imperial or greatly reduced multiplier against mercs.
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American allies card, it’s ~50 extra military population without a need to control a map.
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Having a high ground is OP © Obi-Wan Kenobi. But seriously they should remove extra attack range from this card at least from Stronghold.
And it’s only what I remember from my Inca experience.
It is obviously game breaking if a unit which normally belongs to age4 can be sent in age3.
I actually kind of agree with OP – 4 light cannons in Age III represents the largest power spike possible in age 3 in the entire game, much more powerful than the Lakota TC big button. Per principle, I think that a power spike that strong should not be possible (in age 3) regardless of cost or general viability. I’d prefer to have the number of light cannons and the cost reduced in age 3, and return the current value and price in age 4.
This is not even to mention strongholds. In general I dislike the garrison mechanic of units into strongholds as it simply bypasses the counter system which is a bad thing in RTS games.
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For Incas I think only problem is the new rush people are using to kill TCs at around 5:00. Here is a description as my rec game (from an ally doing it) was not saved:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GZlHGd0q8g]
For native civs it’s particularly bad as minutemen is not available to instantly click anyway, native civs might not even have opted to build a firepit and they’d have to start summoning warriors. Even so you’re usually dealing with a group of all counters that can take down your TC in just less than a minute and needs some ability to be counter-played. This can bode quite badly as it’s one of those “AoE3” simple things that breaks balance. I believe the changes are needed:
- Inca reduced building damage early, they can attack buildings, but an armed TC in 1 minute by 6:00 should be costlier and take longer.
- Move an Age2 card to Age3, they shouldn’t be able to have an all-counter group before 5:00, when others might just start building/creating their first set of units to defend (or, just nerf the amount)
I haven’t had much trouble with it myself but I saw it in usage by some players who are only doing it/using Incas and I think it should be nerfed (force them to play and show they earned it, not just an OP way to win in 5 minutes). For an Aztec clone, I think there should be reason to play as them and not just do this lamer strategy as Inca.