Remove penalties vs artillery, cav, shock inf, vils
New modifiers:
3x or 3.5x heavy inf (nerf)
3x or 3.5x light cav and co (slight buff vs dragoon / CA, nerf vs ERK)
Thanks.
Tldr: it is a nerf, mostly.
Modifiers up for discussion. I prefer a 3x others said it is too much of a nerf, so 3.5x is fine by me.
Philosophy:
lower base damage allows fine tuning against particular unit classes, and less scaling with CIR, veteran upgrades, cards etc. smaller list of modifiers makes UX better.
might be worth exploring turning the unit into a strict vs inf or vs LC counter (probably vs inf, as azaps deal with LC).
Also add a nice big AoE to their damage, maybe increase their speed and hp a bit. As a bonus maybe there could be a card where they auto-train from the town center alongside villagers.
I agree with nerfing ottomans and others civs in some way, but always with careful experimentation, or in the next patch, everyone will complain about x civ being too weak now lol
For reference:
Veteran upgrades give 20% HP and attack
Guard upgrades give 30% HP and attack
Imperial upgrades give 50% HP and attack
A 20% nerf is demoting an entire veteran rank to a unit, a big hit in their performance.
They are a little too good against LC, the current 80+ damage is fully applied due to siege damage. Multipliers are up for discussion, but the idea stands: lower base damage, less scaling, less fraction multipliers, simply adjust the right multiplier to obtain balance.
I’m agreeing with you man lol
I’d go for a very similar rebalance as you state, there is 1 point I didn’t remember though… light infantry.
Abusive guns are as good as they are because they are similar to leather cannons, an age 2 “artillery piece” with big quote marks that perform nicely against infantry, BOTH infantries, hence, the siege damage.
So if your nerf comes up, they’d do only half of the damage to skirmishers from now on, they’d probably be the WORST light infantry vs light infantry unit in the game…
So… should the heavy infantry multiplier be switched for an “all infantry” multiplier? Probably, but then they’d have to reduce the light cav multiplier further, to state that this unit can’t really counter more than 2 unit types.
I think this is a decent idea overall, but we need to increase their HP a bit. Overall it’s a massive nerf, and if you designed an “ideal skirm” it would be high damage and low hp. Shifting them towards lower damage with higher hp would be a decent move. Similar damage to 2 skirms vs HI and LC, lower HP than 2 skirms (but maybe 185 with 20% rr), and substantial cheaper than 2 skirms.
My personal thinking is reduce the base damage a little bit, increase the HI multiplier to 2x and slow the attack animation to match Skirmishers and other gunpowder infantry.
I’m definitely of the opinion that nerfs are required for Ottoman, but this feels like too much in one area while neglecting other things that also need small nerfs. The civ needs a number of small nerfs to almost a laundry list of things.
Ottos do have the Azap to deal with light cavalry so it’s not a huge deal if Abus Guns don’t get a bonus versus light cavalry (they already only do x0.9 vs them). The only issue is how the extra heavy infantry multiplier from CIR interacts multiplicatively with an all infantry multiplier.
It is fine, I was thinking about turning it into a strictly anti inf unit, and remove the modifier to LC completely.
The reasonably low base damage allows us to mess around with multipliers without accidentally breaking things and without creating ridiculously long UI lists.
Do note that against dragoon/CA type units they actually get a buff with my current changes, the big nerf is against ERK, which tbh, aztecs really need in this particular match up
I do not believe a health buff is necessary, unless we remove the multi vs LC as discussed above. The unit gets marginal buffs against unit types they had negative modifiers against due to how armor works. Optionally the base damage could be increased to 18 or even 20, while adjusting multipliers to keep same bonus.
