In the new dlc the Chinese lost camel line which is capable in countering calvary units. By the way, the Chinese is “archer and gunpowder” civilization but doesn’t have hand cannon and bombard cannon? Okay, I understand IT IS BALANCE. Why not add siege engineers for losing camels and not having hand cannon or bombard cannon?
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Because they got Fire Lance (also anti Cavalry) and very good Rocket Carts.
I think that makes more then up for the loss.
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Chinese were deliberately designed to have a weakness against Civs with Onagers / Siege Onagers. That’s why never had Siege Engineers, and never had Redemption + Block Printing.
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Or let’s change our thinking. If they were to be given the Siege Engineers, what could they give up if necessary?
To be honest, after seeing the rich and detailed records of Chinese siege weapons, I kind of think that it’s reasonable for them to have Siege Engineers regardless of balance.
By the way, I would like to allow them to train Flamethrower as a UU in Siege Workshops.
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Indeed, Firethrower is an interesting unit but only avalaible in campaigns, it’s kind of wasteful. I’m a fan of east asian medieval history and I learned that the Jurchens and Khitans were actually “babarian” to the major part of China, however the Jurchens have bombard cannon in the game which is super weird.
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It seems to be currently only trainable by Ming Army in the Vietnamese campaign.
Honestly, the Jurchens’ fully upgraded Siege Workshops with multiple bonuses feel a bit too powerful in late games. Removing the Bombard Cannon could be a decent change.
On the other hand their mid-games were a bit too weak. Khitans and they both deserve heavy cavalry units in Stables. The Iron Pagoda can be moved to the stable, while the Grenadier can be moved to the castle.
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-Well, if you put gunpowder weapons in China, it’s probably going to be a fraudulent civilization.
- In addition to 火箭, a solid gunpowder rocket developed during the Rock Al Chun (Daegeum) era and an ancestor of the modern MRL, there were many forms of gunpowder weapons in addition to the small version of the British Congregation rocket.
- For your information, this thing was later loaded into a cart and operated. This is called a “gahua cart,” and it was an ancestor of the modern Firebase.
They should get Siege Engineers when:
*Celts get Squires.
*Britons get Thumb Ring.
*Franks get Bloodlines.
*Turks get Siege Engineers.
*Byzantines get Blast Furnace.
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Arrowslits?
Generally, the arrow holes on the Chinese walls are square, with the same width and shape from front to back, and no oblique angle at the back. Maybe it’s because I’m ignorant and haven’t seen many ancient walls in China, so I’ve never seen arrowslits like those in Europe. Therefore I was quite curious and interested when I first saw those arrowslits in Mount & Blade.
Giving Chinese hand cannoneer will hardly breakly the balance.
If taking historical accuracy a thing, I think they could get siege engineers and bombard cannon, and lose plate armor for cavalry and archers in blacksmith.
Case closed! In the third mission of the Mongol Campaign, Chinese siege engineers got kidnapped by the Mongols. That’s why China has no siege engineers in-game. 
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Heavy Cavalry. Chinese will be like Saracens that have no access to Cavalier.
Camel was just meant as a support unit for xbows for Chinese but they were used as more than just a support unit very often. So now they got replaced with fire lancers which fulfill that role better.
Absolutely fine to add siege engineers, hand canoneers and bombard canons to fit the theme of being a gunpowder civ if they get just +2 vills instead of +3 for -175 food and -75 wood. Or if they lose the knight line or plate barding armor. Otherwise it becomes an extremely powerful civ with too many options.
Not sure if people are willing to accept their towers being nerfed, especially since their towers have always been considered as the civ’s strength because of the Great Wall. But personally it will be totally fine to me if the Great Wall give the wall and tower like +50% HP.
In terms of balance, this is a bit of a loss. lol
They will be officially pushed towards the archer identity. But the irony is that Mongols, Koreans and Southeast Asians have heavy cavalry but the Chinese do not.
They should be fine to get Hand Cannoneers directly with nothing to lose.
I would take the -185 food and remove the extra sight of TCs, but start with +2 villagers and +1 goat. The extra goat is homage of AoE3 Chinese and helps low elo players reduce the loss when they can’t find sheep immediately, but -1 vil is still supposed to be a big nerf for high elo players.
Besides, weakening the monastery is a viable option, such like removing the Theocracy, Fervor and even Faith.
They would still remain OP, the only weakness the Chinese have is when the opponent manages to get to SO + Halberdiers. Which is extremely difficult to achieve in open or semi-open maps.
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Only hand cannoneer should be allowed to add to the Chinese. Neither Siege Engineers nor Bombard Cannon is suitable for Chinese for the sake of balance.
Chu Ko nu+ rocket carts/scorpions with siege engineers. What can counter Chinese?
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In real life history, medieval Chinese really lack heavy cavalry and infantry, and bloodline is also doubtable for them, but they have stronger artillery and archers.
In real history their heavy infantry was okay, but they indeed lacked cavalry, particularly during the Southern Song era.
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In Tang and Ming Dynasty, their heavy cavalry should be adequate? In Song dynasty, their heavy infantry was relied to defeat cavalry. I remember that there was a type of Chinese armor that cover the whole body.