Additional thoughts about walls state of balance

I noticed there was controversial discussion about the topic of wall balance on aoe 3. This topic is the important one as walls state of balance creates implication for all games type and therefore I want to offer some constructive and reasonable thoughts to add to this topic.

Wall is UP and requires buff

First of all, as mention on the other topic, wall is severely under-utilized. In fact, if one considers by reasonably looking at objective facts, it is clear almost none of top players uses wall regularly. In fact, this leads to the conclusion that wall is under powered. Because other wise these top player would execute wall regularly. Now, sure, that is all true except for one notable exception. That is the no.1 player he occupy the first 3 elo slots he makes lots of wall every game he plays.

I see it is tempting to fall on uneducated opinion concerning this data. One could say that because no.1 player with top 3 elo slots makes lots of wall every game, this shows wall are good or even OP. However, this wrong belief is incorrect. Because it must be considered the following:

  1. Breeze brother is no.1 player. He is the best. In fact, he has reached the highest elo in history of aoe 3. Sure “aoe 3’ it’s vague so many version. In fact, if you look closely at the facts, breezer brother reached highest elo in the history in the entire world in the definitive edition (DE) of aoe 3. DE is (1) the most modern (2) the most sophisticated (3) the most complex (4) the most intellectually demanding version of aoe 3 ever. Thus, from scientific standpoint breeze elo accomplishment eclipses all other aoe 3 elo records quantitatively and qualitatively.

  2. Breeze brother won the only S-tier (defined by liquidpedia) tournament hosted on aoe 3 DE which as I mentioned previously aforementioned above, see above I showed it’s the hardest aoe 3 version to win a tournament on (especially an S-tier tournament on DE).

  3. What is more, breezer brothers has the longest win streak in the history of aoe 3 (any version). Previous record was by iamgrunt who has old reputation as the best aoe 3 player ever. Not only did breeze smash grunt’s record, he did

  • On DE (as mentioned previously aforementioned this is highly most sophisticated and extreme complicated notion of age of empires 3) thus one must conclude this record by breeze is more impressive.

  • By using a civ, Italy, which had <50% win rate hence objectively speaking an under powered ci
    v. Notice by the same logics that we say wall is under powered. That is, pressing statistical evidence (UP win rate of civ, UP usage-rate of building) to uniform conclusions mandating strong conclusions.

  1. These result are not usually. Reasonable look at the facts shows some surprising results. First it’s that breeze brother is by a considerable margin the greatest aoe 3 player of all time, and surely it’s arguable one of the best rts players of all time.

  2. Thus, one is forced to conclude that breeze use of walls every game is not necessarily correlated with his unparalleled heights of success. In fact, more far likely explanation using the scientific principle of Occulus Razer show’s that it’s his general extreme high skills in multitasking and mechanics plus top-tier macro which gives him success. These are skills one must possess by every top performing rts player. Breeze Brother is exrtemely top performing rts player. Hence, breeze brother possesses these skills extremely. It is a distortion of illogic to propose to add the unnecessary superfluous additional added element to the theory like an unrestrained speculation “he wins a lot because he abuses walls”. That is frankly bizarre and not reasonable and is not required for an explanation for his unparalleled success.

  3. Since walls are weak and UP at present, there is a strong argument that breeze would achieve even higher success if he didn’t make walls, because you’ll notice some interesting facts by considering the following facts:

  • Breeze brother devotes considerable mental strategic acumen every game devoted to making underpowered, weak, and under-performing building (wall) which distracts his acumen and IQ from other tasks, and for what? To build underpowered, weak, and under-performing building (wall).

  • One should not under-value this point. Like Breeze said on the other topic, deciding where to place walls is high in depth of thinking level and strategic thinking. This level to decide where to place, and how much to make, which angle, what time, considering possible future intersections, weak and strong points, where to gate, how to adjust macro to make it all work, how to counter enemy reaction, etc., all result in mammoth increase of menetal energy required and substantial increase of intellectual output and focus delivered on the decision.

  • So just consider how much Breeze brother performance and results would increase if he didn’t spend a lot of time, energy, focus, strategic decision-making acumen and IQ every game making lots of walls, which are UP and not especially good in current game due to their weak and UP state.

  • However, at this moment I cannot prove this beyond reasonable doubt it is currently a theory. A highly reasonable one sure yes I agree but we must be reasonable and say it is not beyond doubt.

Now having presented an argument based on the results of the no.1 player (current/all time) I believe I have showed a strong case why walls are UP and should result a buff in forthcoming patches.

Wall is important for variety and strategic variety

I also must also add that I strongly agree to the notion that walls are needed to add much needed variety and strategic variety to DE. At present most DE players and most top players agree that there is a lack of strategic variety in the game. This surprising fact results from several factors, including:

  • Not enough trade posts (with only limited number of TP, there is limited amount of XP, hence fewer cards. Cards promote strategic depth and hence lack of TP=lack of cards=lack of variety=lack of strategy)

  • Not enough res in base on maps (with only limited amount of time you can safely boom in basse there is limited options for boom oriented civs to safely boom in base hence there is a strategic lack of variety for such civs leading to one dimensional playstyle or civ choice selection)

But certainly it also results from the UP and weak state of walls. In fact, this is not surprising. Without walls, a player with superior mechanics and multitasking skills (like breeze brother for example) has a large advantage over his/her opponent. That is because without walls the opponent does not have access to a cheap almost instantly-building building that ruins completely all unit pathing, blocks access to resources on the map, provides easy and strong protection to map-securing buildings, etc, and thus must rely solely on (inferior) general rts skills to compete.

However, with walls the game is not decided like at present by general rts skills and mechanics only but the additional element of strategic thinking and depth is added. Because wall slow the game down, block mechanics, limit multi tasking and more, wall allows players with limited mechanical or general skill (like me, hehe) to compete by devoting more time to overall strategic thinking and build orders and booming in base. Surely slowing like this appeals to larger player base and hence is not only a priority from standpoint of the competitive desig# ### arguably also a financial priority, imo, arguably.

I hope therefore in future the patch dev team allows more strategic variety to DE by adding buffs to walls on DE. The conclusion is that this will benefit the game because more strategic variety will be included in the game and pkayers want more variety and strategic thinking options like what’s allowed by stronger more viable and more buffed walls.

How to do this? I would refer back to what breeze brother himself reasonably suggested in his topic about suggestions for how to improve the walls state of balance on DE because his suggestions are surely in my opinion quite good and reasonable and also would result in good consequences for balance and the community.


makes new post allegeding old, normal, civil, and currently used discussion is bad with 0 evidence and its still open
makes nothing but the most vauge comments supporting the person breeze without a modcium of his arguments or anything resembling evidence for their claims. Not even us forum users favorite form of evidence, “selectively favorable anecdotes,” is provided.
calls for devs to listen to his opinions while failing to proivde any actual experience and speaks in a way suggesting they dont even play only watch

Like this is not only redudant and we do not need 2 threads for 0 reason, but feels sketchy. I dont see why you couldnt have posted this in the old thread so any interested can keep track of it and those who arent dont have multiple threads to move through?


Unfortunately I do not find this response constructive or reasonable.

You will see if you look reasonably at the other topic that is became a messy one of arguing and in my opinion the clear thoughts about the topic of walls state of balance was not clear, which is important as I said here for the game.

Thus for helping the community and providing a platform for reasonable discussion with new angle of thoughts I made a new topic.

I hope going forward there is only reasonable responses please.

Closed for spam, plis continue discussion here

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