Also I hope the stupid DE Tower nerf will be reverted. T90 thinks the same and I can’t agree with him more
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That’s what I was refering to. That loss was completely on the Frank player’s fault. Just like Celt paladins have 100% winrate not because they are OP, but because the enemy was unprepared.
Let’s bring back the automatic black forest ban, and all the complaints about their viability everywhere else.
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Except it is not! Once Goths got their flood they are the most broken civ in the game in imp 11
?
Koreans would be viable with the reverted changes and with a tower buff in 1v1s
It’s not like better infantry or dedicated anti infantry cucks them hard.
Well weren’t the complaints that they only had the tower rush? Plus Incas would still have the better tower rush while having the best tech tree among the meso civs.
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The tower buffs would make two civs: Koreans and Spanish viable in no time. In the older times all the trush civs were kinda used equally - Koreans and Spanish could go trush into Unique Unit which is more stronger than Incas - War Wagons and Conqs are unkillable in those messy games
But the noboru rush didn’t have all the publicity it has now. And let’s be real if the Inca rush was ahead to the point of surviving the tower nerf it will still be would the nerf be reverted.
Yep they are unstoppable at Low Elo because all expect until Imp to attack 11
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Yeah because the pros in HC4 are low elo sure
Stop bringing up a pro game where Goths won and you assume that’s broken, just because that Goths aren’t Broken lol
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And who said that i am talking about Goths in general?! The topic suggested a buff for them and i said “no”, because i don’t see they need a buff, if you see they need a buff then this is your opinion
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i’d like to see a lot of the “have 500 free res worth of stuff in castle age” replaced with smaller earlier economy bonuses. the free military stuff tends to either be really strong or not relevant at all (depending on the settings), while the smaller eco bonuses have a greater chance of resulting in fair games
there’s a lot of unnecessary stuff that has been added to the game recently that just makes games less close. it’s the type of stuff that doesn’t ruin 1v1 arabia, so you don’t see complaints about it but it just ends games fast in some other situations
giving a bunch of civs free expensive castle age military upgrades or huge discounts or overpowered UUs/UTs hasn’t worked too well. i’m not saying it’s too strong or too weak, but it’s too inconsistent. the teamgames have gotten a lot worse with stuff like free thumb rings & cheap fully upgraded war wagons & all the random extra armor that was given to random units (instead of giving those civs an eco bonus) & coustilliers & first crusades & instant FC longboats.
if a civ is too slow, just make them faster with an eco bonus. that will have the desired effect 99% of the time. giving them random military power spikes has the desired effect only 30% of the time. 20% of the time it’s overpowered. 50% of the time it’s useless (for that game situation).
it’s bad enough that we have to wait 30-45 minutes just to get a team game with the horrendous matchmaking system. and then when it’s not even balanced because of some weird random power creep that was only tested on these tidy neat maps like arabia/arena/blackforest that have very little to do with actual RM
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I like the LC in feudal for Burgs, but 50% cheaper stables its too much, they already have cheaper techs and they would be getting cavaliers and LC earlier and cheaper in exchange of BL.
Just to be clear, LC upgrade for burgs would cost less than half the cost of BL, the only reason i think its fine its because they dont have any early eco bonus
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It’s either one or the other, not both.
The cost isn’t a problem, it’s not why you usually researched or delay BL, the problem usually is that you idle half of your production for researching it. LC in feudal would pose the same problem, it would cost less, but it would still idle your eco for 45s (BL takes 50s).
Also, LC is actually slower than scouts, so you need to be careful on researching it, since then your opponent scouts will always decide when to engage.
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I suggested this idea in a different topic
but it turned out to be too strong. I tested it and there are two problems with LC in Feudal, even though I think it would be a really cool and flashy change, that encourages the Burgundians pick over say Magyars or Teutons (Atacama, Land Madness).
The first problem is the +2 attack is too strong in Feudal Age and it gives your opponent a hard time to counter your LC with spears, as they get killed super fast. Also assuming we are in a late Feudal situation with both blacksmith upgrades and bloodlines/LC researched the LC will always win against FU scouts.
The second and bigger problem that is connected with this powerspike is that the LC upgrade costs 150f 50g, meaning you don’t even need to mine gold since you still have the 50g remaining from Dark Age. This means the LC upgrade is no longer a “maybe in late Feudal upgrade” but you can research it almost instantly when getting your stable up.
Burgundians probably need the more boring but conservative change to their eco bonus.
But it would idle you stable for almost a minute. A balanced drawback could be that it takes even more, so you’ll have less units.
But scouts can always run away since they are faster.
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I don’t think the one minute idle time for your stable matters too much when you already have 5+ scouts on the field. My point is that the power spike is probably too big for Feudal Age (although I’d like to see that change)
Also the 0.05 speed difference is so minimal that it doesn’t really matter. Assuming both players aren’t fully walled I wouldn’t care too much about scouts in my base since I can counter them with spears. Having LC in my base is a way bigger problem even if they are a tiny bit slower.
In theory yes but at some point you have to fight and Burgundians would always have the upper hand.
These vacuum knee jerk comparisons. Cuman tc in feudal exists. So the precedence for slower but earlier exists. Same could apply to LC (eg 50% slower)
Teuton kts and lith kts exist. Neither can be beaten 1:1 by kt civs, never mind non kt civs like italians.
Frank/magyar scout spike is much earlier and cheaper WITH a better eco
That speed difference means nothing? Say hello to m@a v archers or cuman scouts.
Burg have no eco bonus on top of all of this. And suddenly the worst civ in the game is going to become OP with a unit slightly stronger than the existing BL scout magyar get? Please man…
It feels like the exact same argument that was against turk scouts “but how will my archers counter turk scouts? They’re OP”
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Freaking LC on dark is just hilarious.
With half cost, half research time and maybe half cost stables.
I cant 11 long enough…
I think it is more complex than this. Once in Castle Age more options arise to counter those stronger knights (pikes, monks), so although they are quite strong there is counterplay. In Feudal this is really limited. In theory I really like the idea, that’s why I originally suggested it.
- Play extended Feudal, so you can make use of your eco techs and also have a strong unit that can justify not skipping straight to Castle
- Have a really strong eco to go for fast cavalier for another power spike
- Transition into gunpowder or paladin in Imp
Cool civ concept yay!
Problem is +2 attack in Feudal Age is just really really strong and is super hard to counter.
And you see how oppressive franks are with their bonuses. Do we want another franks in the game? I don’t.
The thing is it is not slightly stronger but significantly stronger. Maybe I’m misjudging the situation and it has to be played out vs real opponents and the power spike is not as strong as I believe (tested it several times vs AI) but the potential for being OP is there. At the same time you know you need to get Castle ASAP vs Burgundians because they are too strong in mid - late Feudal.