Adjustments to HRE

(crossposted from reddit. See original post here)

Hello everybody! I recently had a few ideas about how to adjust HRE to make their gameplay less one-dimensional and focused around the relics. Disclaimer: I have probably not played HRE at all since release (I’m a China main). However, I have a friend who I do team games with who plays mainly HRE, and I ran these ideas past him before this.

I am approaching this from the perspective that HRE is overall balanced, so these buffs and nerfs are not supposed to change their overall power level - just make their playstyle more diverse and adaptable, and reduce their reliance on relics. Finally, no numbers on these changes are final. Some of the numbers may be too large or to small, but the general ideas are more important.

General Changes:
All religious units will now move at the base monk speed when carrying a relic
This is just a change for consistency’s sake, as I think any unit carrying a relic should be vulnerable. And it’s pretty silly that a Delhi Scholar or HRE Prelate can (w/relic) run faster than a monk-on-a-horse

HRE changes:
Meinwerk Palace now can also research the HRE unique infantry techs in feudal (Marching Drills, Heavy Maces, Two-handed Weapons, Riveted Chain-mail). Now also researches techs 25% faster
This change is intended to help the HRE where they are traditionally weak, feudal. With this change HRE feudal MAA and Spearman can legit be a frightening force and hit a devastating timing attack, if you’re willing to give up the mid and late-game eco benefit of the Chapel.

Burgrave Palace now trains units with 80% reduced training time instead of Batch Training . Units trained out the Palace cost 20% less gold
This change is intended to provide an actually viable option for HRE if they can’t safely secure the relics. It is still equivalent to 5 barracks, but the removal of batch training makes it a lot more flexible, and the gold savings help compensate for not going for the Regnitz.

Regnitz Cathedral no longer can garrison relics. Instead, relics garrisoned in any building now generate +100% gold.
This nerf will greatly reduce the benefit HRE gets from relics; 1 relic will generate 200 GPM instead of 300; 3 relics will now only generate 600 GPM down from 900. The HRE will now need 5 relics to surpass their previous passive gold, which makes the fight for relics much less one-and-done and provides much more opportunity for counterplay. Finally, this change helps encourage what I think is a seriously underutilized HRE mechanic; garrisoning relics in outposts and keeps and docks.

Palace of Swabia: Discount on landmark cost removed. Discount on villager production removed
This change makes Swabia still a very good booming landmark, but now creates a massive window of opportunity for the opponent to punish a super fast imperial. Not only will the landmark be coming down slower, now the HRE player will have to spend copious amounts of food in order to take full advantage of their 4-5 tc’s. This means they can’t really build an army while they’re booming, and provides other civs a chance to attack and negate some of the villager production.

I would be happy to hear any feedback you guys have on these possible changes.

1 Like

dont see how this makes them less 1 dimensional, besides the meinwerk buff (only the 25% matters, the rest is a waste or will only be taken on the way to age 3) the rest are nerfs

currently HRE is 1 dimensional because their only strong “game” is late eco and/or MAA

this does nothing to help. landsknecht are mainly only produced thanks to mass gold from relics, so you wont use burgrave for that. 5 rax worth of spears or MAA isnt going to help if your opponent is going counter units. and as HRE you are even more locked into infantry with burgrave

HRE is currently too predictable (whether its game winning or not its still the same match) and your suggestions dont change this at all

the nerf to regnitz will help HRE defensively since they can use their relics to boost buildings, but it hurts their eco (of course) without compensating them enough to make up for their weaker earlier game and the huge nerf to their age 4.

imo i dont think its worth it for someone who doesnt play the civ to make any suggestions (aside from the ones you have just parroted, namely the regnitz adjustment)