Their agriculture was so good that all Mississippians cities collapsed without any european intervention.
On a serious note (I’m repeating myself, but I don’t think you have read much of my posts), see the example of Babylon: a powerful city-state, with great demographics. You wouldn’t include it in aoe2. Why? Because it doesn’t fit in the timeline. There is nothing “medieval” about Babylon (although they actually formed an empire).
So why would you put Mississippians city-states in aoe2? Because it fits in the timeline? But considering American civilisations evolved in isolation (and not Japan-level isolation) of the rest of the world, maybe empires and kingdoms emerged and collapsed during that time in Eurasia/Africa, but North Americans were living in Babylone-like city states (and arguably less advanced on the military side of things). That doesn’t make them lesser people, but that makes Cahokia a worse fit for a Medieval game. But somehow you think that even settings that don’t involve North America have to be about North America.
The one argument I can see to add Mississippians is that Devs already made a big exception by adding Aztecs and Mayas, so they could make an ever bigger exception to the medieval settings by adding Mississippians. Doesn’t change the fact that the civ is not the best for this game. You can cry about it, but even “statelets” like Sicily were more relevant to the medieval world than Cahokia.
2 Likes
A 90% collapse of population by disease cannot be managed easily
Spanish usually lied about the Americas to help their reputation or get some reward.
Nearly every victory of the Spanish in the Americas relied heavily in native troops who joined them
6 Likes
I’m talking about the collapse of cities in northern america, not the diseases brought by Europeans.
Not wrong, and I also understand that people want more american representations to give them credit and “justice”, but a medieval game is maybe not the right place to show their culture.
The game is Age of Empires not Age of Medievalism. The Mississippians had an empire that was contemporary with the medieval era so I’m not sure what you issue is. How are they any different from Aztecs, Inca, or Maya that are already in the game?
1 Like
Barely having any documentation about them, compared with first-hand accounts by the conquistadores, doesn’t help them at all.
2 Likes
From what I’ve seen, it was a city state with a large influence on the region, hardly an empire that would have conquered other city-states. See my older posts, I’ve exposed my points.
1 Like
AoE2 civs are super shallow, it’s not like you need a ton of info to make the handful of unique things for a civ. Archeology can provide enough to base it on.
You’d have to make a lot of things up for the gameplay. Not impossible indeed.
But how do you do for the campaigns if you cannot even rely on some sources to know who to follow and (at least in broad lines) what he did ? It would be making everything up.
The collapse of North America was caused by diseases
Also the game is just extremely varied since the start, I dont mind it
Most north American cities had “collapsed” by the 15th century, Cahokia especially https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iciOvaIm51M
Setting a campaign during the collapse of Mississippian city states with some historically plausible characters would be more than fine. If you really need some certain figures then have it conclude with the de Soto expedition.
1 Like
None of your points are compelling, just a bunch of biased nonsense like this:
How are fortified mound cities not analogous to castles?
The culture was dominant over a vast region. Sounds imperial to me.
4 Likes
Im not talking about Cahokia, Im talking about the Soto exppedition who first saw a rich region to be conquered and a decade or two later came back to find that almost everything collapsed
2 Likes
Also claiming they lived in isolation is, like, nonsense?
There’s a very likely chance they did have trade routes that extended to what would be aztec territory. (Aztecs themselves migrated relatively late to what the seat of their empire was anyways.)
Like if it’s such a problem to have a Cahokia civ isolated from everybody else… just add more civs in North America lmao.
7 Likes
I absolutely hate the whining about Mississippians especially after Forgotten Empires unjustifiably added 2 civs that aren’t even unique cultures and a civ that is ancient and doesn’t fit the game by design.
Although I believe Mississippians should rather come with a unique architecture set. On the other hand we already have Incas that look as foolish with Meso set as Mississippians would look.
3 Likes
I don’t want to spam this thread with seperate comments, but one thing has just come to my mind. They literally repelled the first Spanish expedition and they lasted quite a while when Spanish invaded their land again.
So they could even have a proper, historical campaign.
1 Like
They are referring to how the food cultures of the Americas helped the population growth of Europe and allowed their societies to thrive. Without the domestication of maize and the freeze-drying of potatoes, both discovered by Native Americans, the world as we know it today would not exist.
Why don’t the Aztecs fit in? What exactly does technology have to do with this?
Anything that is oversimplified becomes comical. The Aztecs had never fought against cavalry up until this battle, and naturally they didn’t know how to answer this. There are many factors, not directly related to the war, that also influenced this event, detailed in this answer for those who want to know more.
As for weaponry, these screenshots are from the article Combat and Capture in the Aztec Empire by Ross Hessig (2016), available online here:
And an excerpt from Francisco de Aguilar (a fellow conquistador of Cortez) cited in this answer, just to, well, give an idea of the power of the macuahuitl:
“They used… cudgels and swords and a great many bows and arrows… One Indian at a single stroke cut open the whole neck of Cristóbal de Olid’s horse, killing the horse. The Indian on the other side slashed at the second horseman and the blow cut through the horse’s pastern. As soon as this sentry gave the alarm, they all ran out with their weapons to cut us off, following us with great fury, shooting arrows, spears and stones, and wounding us with their swords.”
2 Likes
Me paying attention to this thread so I can feel more justified in wanting Oceania civs:
As a person from South China, I also want Tai being added (to be honest, South China is half Yangtze River + half Tai, Middle Thai is half Tai + half Khmer). Originally I thought that Siam should be added to AoE 3, but AoE 3 is now abandoned, so.
2 Likes
