By playing Rise of Rome again it became obvious to me why this game Died.
=>
to address a problem of gold resource ending, the developpers in 98 decided to create a new unit that doesnt cost gold : scythe chariot.
While it could be considered a good idea at first, I think this units has totally killed the game.
All the game i can play now, Iron age game or whatever are about making only one unit :
Scythe chariot.
A unit that
_area damage
_doesnt cost gold
_easy to produce
_Fast moving
_good attack
Yep, it became a mono unit game.
Catapults became Totally useless… so many civ weren’t chosen anymore.
Suggestion :
Give some way to make gold to people like in age of empire2
and make the no-gold unit player, unable to beat easily a gold playing player.
Because even when they have gold, ppl choose to make Scythe crap.
Its a real real problem, and I can’t retrieve the fun I had on age of empire1.
Rise of rome was better for interface, queuing unit selection etc… but for unit balance… omg
total mistake.
They did tone the scythes down in the Upatch but scythes are godlike no doubt, but you weaken them too much and HA would be too dominant.
I’m not sure that we were playing the Upatch on Voobly earlier. If we play again we should test, checking that Greek hops are cheaper might be quickest way.
Good game earlier by the way, prefer team games but was fun fighting with you.
I agree that in multiplayer scythe chariot was a game-breaking unit. Too OP and cheap. Removing it is quite rough. Maybe they should limit it to very few civs that used it massively in real history (Persians, Assyrians) and definetly both the Horse chariot and scythe should cost gold; it’s totally mad to leave them as trash units.
The problem is the game diversity.
because of them, no more catapults and a lot of units…
no more composition of army…
Rise of rome has become quite boring after iron age.
I think thats why the community died pretty fast on it.
Having 2 extra armor in upgrade seems unnecessary buff for chariot.
Would taking it away be enough as nerf?
@Totalste said:
I agree that in multiplayer scythe chariot was a game-breaking unit. Too OP and cheap. Removing it is quite rough. Maybe they should limit it to very few civs that used it massively in real history (Persians, Assyrians) and definetly both the Horse chariot and scythe should cost gold; it’s totally mad to leave them as trash units.
Restricting it would also be good. Right now 8/16 civs can get scythe chariot and 4/16 gets all upgrades for it.
@Tgaud said:
you didnt even notice the extra PVs…
I don’t know what PV means. Mind explaining?
i think the nerf should be massive.
There is not much of an space for nerf. Health bonus is minimal, no movement speed bonuses, no pierce armor, small damage bonus, armor bonus, and the unit defining ability to deal trample damage.
it should be like egyptian chariot with area damage and increased cost.
So making unique unit for Egypt. What would be the usage for other chariots?
@Tgaud said:
you didnt even notice the extra PVs…
I don’t know what PV means. Mind explaining?
i think the nerf should be massive.
There is not much of an space for nerf. Health bonus is minimal, no movement speed bonuses, no pierce armor, small damage bonus, armor bonus, and the unit defining ability to deal trample damage.
it should be like egyptian chariot with area damage and increased cost.
So making unique unit for Egypt. What would be the usage for other chariots?
You don’t get it.
Actually the units is 100% usage in iron.
there is all the good point compared to other units
A unit should have 50% good stuff average. not 100%
so yes the nerf should be massive.
If not, the units will still be totally over used
It sounds like you want to remove the trample damage, because it is the only thing that makes scythe chariot so much more effective than what chariot is. Even with all base stats leaved to same as chariot and only trample damage given in upgrade the scythe would still be very strong unit. Cheapest and most effective siege and ranged removal with extra bonus against priests.
If the upgrade doesn’t give the trample damage, then there is almost no reason to upgrade chariot.
Do you have in mind what you want to do with the scythe chariot? With any scenario that i came up i didn’t found any way to make the upgrade reasonable bought with the high cost that it has right now.
4 upgrades instead of one. 400% overpowered There is a serious problem here.
Seriously every serious player is agreed on the fact this unit is totally broken and overpowered.
Don’t try to save what was a total failure in a desperate attemps to make the game last longer while age of empire2 was about to go out.
I agree that the scythe chariot needs to be nerfed. It was already powerful with 50 pop games, but as the pop cap will probably be increased their trample damage becomes even more effective. The trample damage radius is already reduced in the UPatch, but I don’t think that alone is enough. But removing trample damage would make them too useless, so the best way to rebalance them would be to decrease the base stats. Perhaps something like -10HP, -1attack, -1armor and a slight speed decrease.
I have also noticed that camels to much less bonus damage to scythe chariots than they do against cavalry. It’s +8 against cavalry, +4 against regular chariots and only +2 against scythe chariots. Increasing the bonus damage the camels do to 8 would make camels win scythes 1v1, but would of course still lose in larger numbers due to the trample damage.
@qweytr24 said:
I agree that the scythe chariot needs to be nerfed. It was already powerful with 50 pop games, but as the pop cap will probably be increased their trample damage becomes even more effective. The trample damage radius is already reduced in the UPatch, but I don’t think that alone is enough. But removing trample damage would make them too useless, so the best way to rebalance them would be to decrease the base stats. Perhaps something like -10HP, -1attack, -1armor and a slight speed decrease.
I have also noticed that camels to much less bonus damage to scythe chariots than they do against cavalry. It’s +8 against cavalry, +4 against regular chariots and only +2 against scythe chariots. Increasing the bonus damage the camels do to 8 would make camels win scythes 1v1, but would of course still lose in larger numbers due to the trample damage.
just make the scythe a normal chariot with trample damage. no increase of stats…
@Tgaud i agree but to leave the scythe chariot as a not completely useless unit you should give it some advantages for not having ranged attack. +1 attack and +10 hp should be enough.
@Totalste said: @Tgaud i agree but to leave the scythe chariot as a not completely useless unit you should give it some advantages for not having ranged attack. +1 attack and +10 hp should be enough.
chariot already have advantage compared to archer chariot
i dont know why a no-gold unit should have even more advantage than that
@qweytr24 said:
Perhaps something like -10HP, -1attack, -1armor and a slight speed decrease.
All bonus armor should be taken away, It only makes scythe stronger on things it should be weak.
The speed of a scythe is same as chariot. it would be illogical to decrease it.
Only halving health and damage bonuses (as you stated) would be good, if the scythe would be too weak when all of the bonuses have been taken away.
I have also noticed that camels to much less bonus damage to scythe chariots than they do against cavalry. It’s +8 against cavalry, +4 against regular chariots and only +2 against scythe chariots. Increasing the bonus damage the camels do to 8 would make camels win scythes 1v1, but would of course still lose in larger numbers due to the trample damage.
Not sure where you looked, but i saw it being +4 on both cases. Odd to not be +8 for sure. Increasing it to +8 wouldn’t be bad idea. Making it higher on scythet than on chariot might not be good (would be odd if the upgraded version is weaker at something), but i don’t see a reason why camels shouldn’t be better at countering them both.
