Ancient Era Age of Empires 4 style Concept

Well, it is much preferable to me to see an AoMII built on a modern engine with brand new crisp AAA graphics and modernized innovative gameplay than just an AoEV set on an ancient period.

AoM’s time setting will necessarily overlap with a historical title just set on classical antiquity but is able to go beyond that, it can combine several different periods without an issue and offer much more to the game.

An AoM game can still offer some historicity to the fans. For one thing, a people’s mythology is part of history itself, it has to be portrayed accurately and originally, it’s not fantasy. Then armors, weapons architectures, technology tree, can still all be derived from history and offer you parts of what you would like to see in an AoEV.

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Age of Empires 5 - ancient
Age of Empires 6 - Early modern era

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We are developing the Indians for AoEO and have announced much of their design. The details for Indians in this post sound an awful lot like our civ. There’s both a unique domestic elephant unit that gathers resources as well as well as an Age 2 anti-building infantry unit who actually is a monkey who uses fire. It sounds crazy but historical ancient Indian sources discuss such a unit, particularly in the Arthasasta, which is a very influential war manual that survives to this day.

Indian units work in AoEO. I’m not sure how receptive they’d be to a larger audience.

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there were also tactics employed at times using pigs on fire into enemy lines to disrupt formations.

War dogs could also be used for some civs.

I think they should work in a little different way though. Instead of training a pig or a dog and using it as a unit, you train a handler, and like SC carrier you tell them to train dogs or pigs or in indias case monkeys, and they train them (for cost) and then you target enemies using your handlers, and the animals act automatically. Within the range of the handler.

Other things to consider, For elephants a 3-7% chance to rampage when down to 15-50% of its health, it increases its area attack but acts as a gaia unit that attacks everything around as its health points start to trickle down. (needs animation of ele gabbing driver off it)

Elephant special ability? elephant lets out a mighty trumpet sound that slows for a brief moment oncoming advancing forces in short range? maybe only for horses, to help stunt charges. could be a passive % chance ability when ele sees oncoming cav in LOS.

Percentage chance based abilities take away skill from pvp.

Hmmm now the question is how do we all come together and make this game REAL now that there is interest? I do t want to be in competition or copywriting wars over this idea mind you all.

I do agree I like it as usesable ability, those types of events when pulled off in the right moment make PVP strategic gaming really fun to watch. If its just about a numbers game of HP minus attack, its less dynamic, but if say the french is coming in with some charging cav or even trying to get away with them, but then use the elephant sounds and they all “stun” or slow down from being spooked, maybe even chance directions for a split second as if out of control then gives the Indian player a chance to surround or brace for a impact.

The Elephant rampage thing is sort of like a conversion but just another way to make elephants less OP as a unit while providing a lot of shock value. Because if some can be picked off by ranged units and then rampage in the friendly ranks will add some thrilling moments.

I would like to see horses in similar matter dismount people, and become a regular unit, so say a lancer, dismounts and becomes a spear man, but say a heavy cav unit with sword would be come a swords man etc… just a % chance in battle random things happen. with reduced HP of course.

Thoughts for chariots to make them not cavalry. So you have archer chariots that will kite and shoot, but also have a trample attack. Their movement will be limited by needing a turn radius or having to turn really slowly in place for programing when pathing is bad. So basically the pathing is less direct than with cav units as wont be able to turn on a dime. So as they make swooping curves to maneuver any units in their path will get a melee damage while the archer is shooting from the chariot. So basically these should work like a monster truck with a weak attack but similar movement. as they get bunched up though from getting surrounded by units though this attack is lessened (or stopped) and its more of a sacrificing move. So if you target a unit it will stand still and shoot but if you target the unit to move it will still shoot in while moving but any unit in path will get small damage. In a melee version of this its similar but more powerful, maybe with stacking auras so a few chariots bunched together will be a powerful sweeping melee force until their momentum can be quenched. In this, if you target a unit they will try to go as directly as possible to that unit to attack it while providing splash in movement. If you choose to just move them and run units over in splash, while moving will not be able to melee, but if they get bunched up by other units the swords man and spearmen on the chariots will chew through those ranks and really be a anti infantry unit, almost like a melee cannon.

how to counter, the spearmen bracing ability in a melee impact can help stop or use its own momentum to damage the unit itself. susceptible to ballista and other cavalry. surrounding them so they can not move to engage trample. digging of trenches (done by military men, almost free cost of food makes a little trench that slows all units that cross them. (have to use vils to make right/repair for free?)

Conversely, hand cav directly target units in melee and are more of a targeted counter and are better at resisting archers (while the chariots are still pretty good vs them once engaged) the melee chariot should have big HP and a melee resist. They have no siege ability. (can not store the torches on the chariot sorry!)

Could/ should siege equipment be done like this, you build one but then have to task any 4 (or amount of pop to run each engine, maybe fewer than necessary will result in speed/ ROF loss) to the unit like you might have enter a transport. while operating the machine look like a generic operator? (to keep animations easier?) at range the 4 units operate the unit as should be. but if engaged in melee they stop, auto disengage from the siege unit and attack in their melee or ranged modes they have. If they all die then enemy can possess the machine or it can be destroyed while in battle. As a last ditch effort if you think wont be able to reclaim it again can set it ablaze (requires a unit to throw 1 torch on it, so cant just delete at last second you have to plan for it)

How spear men and sarrissa could work… spear men have 1-2 range, so that 2 lines of infantry, can attack at one time on the front line, the spear men can attack from behind units to help bunch them up to counter cav. With sarrissa I think should play with the idea that they have a minimum range of 1 (or have to use weaker sword attack in direct melee yet have a range of 3, so that 3 lines of infantry if all grouped up together can attack at the same time. This makes the unit very strong in large groups as any melee attack would be well covered but in small numbers get over whelmed or forced to fight in its weaker secondary mode. Some civs might have a bonus to have melee or range resist in its cases depending on what specialty of shield use/ vs attack strength. Such as the romans using a similar design but a high range resist and strong melee attack while being slower. (so almost like a melee mantlets)

If I had a big budget I would fund this and hire people to make a game out of it, but sadly no I am just me and not much more skilled in computers but rather with ideas and vision. So I do not know what is or will be implementable or possible. So if you or anyone sees these ideas and wants to try them or improve upon them go for it!

I have only skimmed the surface!

How archers should be done, or my complaint with range units.

Part of the fun with Ancient times is matching up and positioning the right melee units, and in most battles it really was melee units that were the core of every army. Archers were often seen as lesser warriors and were auxiliary troops.

But in AOE games archers dominate. Something needs to be done differently. They just fire too fast with too good of accuracy and the mechanics negate reloading.

Archers should be a delicate yet powerful compliment to a strong protective force.
This means either a longer firing time, or a forced reload that can take place after or before a shot is made ( so unit can shoot n run, but not be able to reload until back in a protected position.
They should be less accurate but more powerful, for instance, at range a arching shot might have a low % to hit. but take 10-15 men, and surely a few will hit, while the others will scatter and possibly hit near by units from the original target. However as units get to mid range, archers shoot in more of a direct line, this up close is very accurate and powerful. a small % chance should be to temporarily blind/ stun a unit who may have gotten splinters in the eye holes. at that point though, they better run behind some troops or will get caught up.

In retreat… melee hand cav should be able to run while attacking. It looks silly that melee cav have to stop to attack, and the guy swings in the air and the troops are so far away again, and then the cav has to run up… that horse would in reality keep right up while the rider used the momentum for stronger strikes… so in this… units with their backs to the enemy in retreat should take double damage from melee cav. PROTECT your archers!

basically archers at range are a nuisance to force engagements by slowly whittling away armies in random accuracy arrow hits, or meant to counter other range units that melee could not reach. Or provide powerful direct mid range support. Its not meant to be a long range killing machine keeping all melee at bay. its a supplement to killing infantry when 2 masses of infantry are fighting.

Some of the issues that you describe comes because units in game have hp pool while people in real life dont.

What do you mean exactly?

Should, could we balance this that armor and hits should be more realistic, in that any unit has a potential for even a 1 hit kill of damage depending on how the units interact? This goes with armor, accuracy, dexterity, number of units in proximity etc…

for instance, a long shot from an arrow a hit might have a 25- 75% chance to miss the shot (based on movement speed) 5% chance for a critical strike immobilizing its movement (animation man hunched over on horse) and quickly its HP dwindles, giving a chance for a healer unit to revive. A 15% chance for a mortal wound, that reduces its effective stats and HP greatly. and 30% for a hit that might be armor related and very light.

for medium to close range, when archers fire directly at armor weak points from point blank range the stats change a little in that accuracy way improves to land those critical and wounding shots. But remember a longer reload time and their own potential squeamishness, means you still got to protect your archers, because if you are running them away and melee catches up will do 2X the chance for kill shot vs. them standing to fight with their short sword or bow as a club.

units need some intangible prowess, like stats, aggression, defensive ability, dexterity, cooperation, awareness, accuracy etc… to make the game more balanced than just HP, speed, attack and resist, which upgrades to HP and attack are really just the same thing. Imagine we take a unit like a Greek Spartan, and part of their thing was to have full aggression and good dexterity, this might help their chances to land good hits on weaker units making them almost seem invincible to weak/ medium infantry that would move slower or be more passive in landing a first hit. I really like this direction as it could make some armored centurions a real problem to deal with like they should be.

a unit with medium to good cooperation, may get passive bonuses from alike units, or near by structures, or even some with full benefit might get buffed from allied units as well. So imagine going back to the sarissa and pike man formations, this is a unit that really only works together and stronger in larger masses. the cooperation links them, and shares this ability, and makes them form their own formation. They will kind of seek each other out, and once linked other units wont want to cut through and will generally move together as a slow pace unless split apart. A unit with very low cooperation, may not get any bonus from commander units or be able to man a siege unit.

This leads into commander/ general units. I like the idea of strategic targets within a battle and surely every battle field needs a commander (which might be able to train standard bearers that then act as 1 unit (you choose the commander the banner guy just follows closely) this signifies that there could now be a civ specific buff that increases potentially, LOS, increased AI so units in aura try to counter units if possible (AI level is set by level of game in lobby) maybe you could use your commander to target a building or army, and it will then assign the units in its field to attack that structure or army like a computer would. Now VS A good player would still have to micro some to find other commanders but its like supplemental better unit AI and pathing from having this…

that may seem a little gimmicky and is only possibility but no ones likes to loose an army to bad pathing… many other potentials are here. Like simply just increasing some unit stats (but lets get beyond just attack and HP)

SO as I see it, the game will be easy to play, but hard to understand, like chess, it may seem complex but it could be basic enough that you can still just make an army and attack, but maybe not understand every battle outcome that may have been decided by things a pro would take advantage of such as terrain, unit compositions, positioning for accuracy and better guarding of melee units etc…

Yeah I wonder what other parts in this post are stolen from other sources, given the similarity of AoEO Indians and this thread’s Indians.

what are you insinuating it is wrong to use ideas from sources? where exactly did the ideas from AOEO come from?

making leap to more unique villager units leads to an elephant as an obvious choice for some civs.

In my view RTS borrowing from each other to make better games is good, no one should have to reinvent the wheel every time.

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I love the ancient age and would love to see a game with Sumer, Akkad, Babylon, Assyria, etc.

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I didn’t mean to keep this post so dormant, I know this won’t likely come true from my dreams to your computers but lets have some fun for now.