No is not, you would have the effect with the Castle UT
While I wouldn’t mind Incas breaking the current cookie-cutter mold of American civ design (Castle UT for skirms, Imp UT for Eagles), this would at least be more worthwhile than the current effect and fits in with Incas’ identity as a counter unit civ. Bringing back couriers is my favored idea tho.
That’s exactly the point I was making. Anyway, I find Couriers a lot more interesting than just another variant of a skirm tech that 2 other American civs have.
So, I say move the current Andean Sling effect to Team Bonus: (Team Skirms have no minimum range), and make Couriers the new Castle UT.
this would be counter-intuitive with the balance/design of the other meso civs, which all have castle age UT that buffs skirmshers. so i think inca’s should do that too. but keeping the actual Andean Sling and flat add “and move 10% faster” would arealdy make the tech much more useful without making it OP (since lithuanians already have faster skirms from the get go and none complains about it)
What? You want to balance something for an ultra niche case?
Mayans don’t need it either, but two wrongs don’t make a right. Inca eagles are specifically better Vs archers, incas have better siege than Mayans. Mayans are an archer civ. Skirms are “archers”. Incas are an infantry civ.
The counter argument has more going for it than trying to justify that Incas should get better skirms of all things
9+4 attack raiding unit in Imperial with 4 pierce armor costing 55 total res. Great idea. The last thing Eagles need is to be cheaper in any age really.
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I wonder how cost ineffective cavaliers will be Vs 55res eagles
Incas may have the armor, but they are still the weakest eagles. And both Aztecs and Mayans have a gold bonus. So even if 30% is too high, I think some form of decreased gold cost for eagles is good. Maybe increase the food cost, to rebalance eco distribution.
Yes, they will have +1/1 instead of +1/2.
That being said, I don’t actually think Slingers at 5/7 armor would be that bad if they keep the low damage. They’ll still die to anything else except maybe Arbalests (or not as heavily).
Anyway, honestly - Incas were also famous for their roads and trades (especially without writing!) so I’d actually rather see some kind of a trade bonus for them. It’ll be useless for 1v1s outside of one-two maps, but will make them a more appealing choice for teamgames. Considering they’re usually seen as a weaker option in TGs, that’d be a nice change, and it’d also bring up the interesting choice to be made as we’re going to have close to six trade bonuses now, so how you’d want to distribute those in a tournament and so on.
I initially thought Couriers could also affect Trade units, but perhaps that’ll be a little too good, especially if it’d affect the entire team’s trade. 11
Incas don’t have the “weakest Eagles”, that’s like saying that Magyars have the weakest FU Paladin, which while true is also a very misleading way of presenting the matter.
Incas Eagles are good enough and, in Castle Age, comparable for all intents and purposes to Aztecs ones who enjoy ONLY faster production.
Likewise, in Imp, there are niche cases when you’d rather have the Incan Eagles, such as vs Cav Archers or mass Arbalest where Fabric Shields is more useful than Garland Wars.
Mayans Eagles, I won’t discuss this one, they are better than Incas yes, but there will always be a best, the question you should be asking is, is Incas Eagle all-in viable? Are Incas Eagles good in Imperial? And the answer to both those questions is generally yes. Notably also Mayans Eagles are “better” only in Imp, after you research Elite, and invest into a Castle AND a very expensive tech, the game doesn’t start in Imp and it’s not trivial to spam El Dorado Eagles every game because of civ matchups and how far ahead you are. In Castle Age, notably, Mayans and Incas Eagles are equivalent.
One thing you need to consider about Incas Eagles is that it’s very easy to add Slingers to them, so doing an early LS switch isn’t as viable vs Incas. Incas of all 3 meso have always been the “versatile meso”, if you don’t like versatility you can always play the meso civs with stronger units but more limited options.
Also I wouldn’t call what Aztecs and Mayans have a “gold bonus”.
Aztecs have:
- +3 resources carried (relevant mostly on Farms and, sometimes, on woodlines)
- +33% gold generated from Relics (this is the only one that I am willing to admit as a “gold bonus” but you also need to work hard for it
Mayans have:
- longer lasting resources (relevant mostly on hunt, farms and shorefish)
- +1 vill (generic bonus that a lot of other civs get too, among those Goths, Chinese and Bengalis also get similar forms of boost.
None of these bonuses impact gold directly so I fail to see how churning out Eagles as Aztecs/Mayans is any easier than as Incas.
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You did miss +50 starting gold for Aztecs as well.
The argument here is pretty simple. All meso civs have a Castle Age UT to buff skirms to make them strongest than average because they lack scout line, this is the way they are designed. Andean Sling happens to just be a bad tech for its intended job
Make it 10% and I’m sold…
20% it’s too much on 2 FU ranged units for a castle age UT, but 10% it’s still solid and it’ll have a large impact on late game massive fights.
The cost should be increased a bit though…
I believe that different civs can have similar bonuses, especially like if in this case the effect is doubled and affects different units.
Like, dravidians have a bonus of 25% faster RoF on skirms and EA, incas would have a UT that would give 10% faster skirms and slinghers, on top removing the minimum range.
true, generally used for a pre mill rush, or on Arena-like maps, for extra fast Castle age timings.
Would be logical that slingers have more range than skirm so maybe its should give +1 range and maybe also +1 damage to slingers and remove minimum range for both units.
Agree.
Idk. I think Incas should get some kind of Gold-related bonus.
Not only that it makes sense historically, but also because of the civ design.
One Idea could be to give them that tech called “El Dorado”, which converts a part of the Wood income into Gold. Like 10 % or so.
This would make sense as El Dorado is the name of the famous golden city in the forest.
Ofc there is the Issue with the Overlap with Paper money. But it’s a bit different. El Dorado would convert some of the Wood into Gold, It could even be debated if it also scales that conversion (so losing eg 15 % of wood income for that extra 10 % Gold or something like this). Paper money gives extra Gold. Also Incas don’t have Two-Man-Saw whilst Vietnamese have that upgrade.
To further differentiate the techs the Inca one could be kind of cheap but with some Gold cost, whilst the Vietnamese more expensive but with no Gold cost.
I think this would solve the lategame Issue for Incas as they are currently often have to deal with not being as big of an eco powerhouse as the other eagle civs. And even fall of as heavy as them in the very lategame cause of the high Gold cost of their army composition. With that tech that gives some extra Gold income this problem would be solved.
Edit: And Mayans El Dorado could be replaced with something more fitting. It could still increase the Eagles HP, but probably not by 40, but more like 20-30 or so. Alternatively it could increase ALL Infantry HP, giving the Mayans more flexibility in the lategame (Mayans could lose Halberdier in the exchange, as 75 HP pikes would already be quite strong).
Slingers were already nerfed by giving them -1 attack because they overlapped too much with Crossbow/Arbalest.
I missed this forum 
“You are right, I can’t deny it, so I’m going to call you out on this irrelevant point you missed”
Completely ignoring the rest of the post. I’m sure 50g goes a long way to make Aztec imp eagles more viable than Incas.
You missed the part where it becomes a civ bonus.
The first part of my post applies to you as well.
My 20% suggestion was only for Skirms tough, i’m not sure if i would add slingers si c’è they already have TR
If you make it a civ bonus, you still have to make a Castle Age UT related to skirms to keep consistency in the meso civs
What if we increased the current Andrean Sling to the skorpion line ?