Another list of balance ideas

[ReanuKeeves00]

@MatCauthon3

honestly the game doesn’t need wide sweeping changes anymore imho.

I think this ship has already sailed. In many ways the gameplay is completely different than what most of us are used to from before DE. Some of it in a good way, and some of it not.

[JokerPenguin593]

@MatCauthon3

onestly the game doesn’t need wide sweeping changes anymore imho.

Burgundians, sicilians buff for sure. Then, minor tweaks here and there.

[MatCauthon3]

@anon45959656

I think this ship has already sailed. In many ways the gameplay is completely different than what most of us are used to from before DE. Some of it in a good way, and some of it not.

The game is mostly balanced now though, thats the point. we need little tinkers here and there to adjust a few civs, but nothing like we have seen hte past year and a half.

@JokerPenguin593

Burgundians, sicilians buff for sure. Then, minor tweaks here and there.

well yeah but remember when we were getting big patches every month, month and a half tops? we don’t need that.

[ReanuKeeves00]

@MatCauthon3

The game is mostly balanced now though, thats the point. we need little tinkers here and there to adjust a few civs, but nothing like we have seen hte past year and a half.

Is it? To me it feels that certain strategies are now heavily favoured and the gameplay has a lot less variety than it used to, only really being somewhat kept interesting by the stream of new civ inclusions. I think it’s also why a DLC with new civs is coming out so soon one after the one we just had…

[MatCauthon3]

@anon45959656

To me it feels that certain strategies are now heavily favoured and the gameplay has a lot less variety than it used to

less variety then it used to? before DE most civs didn’t even see use. now? we see plenty of different civs used all over the place and only a very few civs see almost no use.

[ReanuKeeves00]

@MatCauthon3

we see plenty of different civs used all over the place and only a very few civs see almost no use.

I think a lot of that can be attributed to an overall larger playerbase. I am very happy that DE exists don’t get me wrong, it’s way better. But some of the balance changes have been very odd.

[MatCauthon3]

@anon45959656

I think a lot of that can be attributed to an overall larger playerbase.

i’m talking even in tournaments, not just ladder games.

@anon45959656

But some of the balance changes have been very odd.

like which ones?

[ReanuKeeves00]

@MatCauthon3

like which ones?

A lot of the nerfs tended to go overboard. Way overnerfing civs/strategies to the point of uselessness. I must admit that the recent trends have been better.

And also some of the priorities were odd, like only addressing Obsidian Arrows recently, even though it was clearly a bad tech.

[Szebo210]

@anon45959656

@MatCauthon3

we see plenty of different civs used all over the place and only a very few civs see almost no use.

I think a lot of that can be attributed to an overall larger playerbase. I am very happy that DE exists don’t get me wrong, it’s way better. But some of the balance changes have been very odd.

I agree with MatCauthon on this, I also believe the game is more balanced in terms of civilizations and tournaments results support this argument too

[MatCauthon3]

@anon45959656

A lot of the nerfs tended to go overboard. Way overnerfing civs/strategies to the point of uselessness.

care to give some examples?

@anon45959656

like only addressing Obsidian Arrows recently

because obsidian arrows wasn’t abused that much until people saw viper and company trolling with it.

[Szebo210]

@MatCauthon3

care to give some examples?

cumans and steppe lancers are a perfect example, though just like @anon45959656 mentioned recently trends have been better

[MatCauthon3]

@Szebo210

cumans and steppe lancers are a perfect example

that was literally 15 months ago though that the SL nerf happened. were way past that at this point. and face it. launch steppe lancers were dumb.

[DoctBaghi]

@mrmicahmooshead

It would allow 1 villager to collect 1 whole deer assuming it rots at least 5 food. Using micro you could use 3-4 villagers to gather all the deer in one trip.

And it would take forever, if I’m going for deers I need the food now, not a minute later. I’ll probably just find myself manually dropping the food at the mill time to time.

@mrmicahmooshead

Arambai aren’t affected by thumb ring according to the wiki. I haven’t tested it myself.

The arambai is a CA (not gunpowder since it’s affected by ballistics) I may be wrong though, so just try to train one in a full tech tree game and see if there are differences between before and after TR.

Anyway, giving the s***y range that burmese have (lacking 2 armor) it really makes no differences giving them TR, instead give them the second armor, so their skirms are decent at least in castle age.

@mrmicahmooshead

Goldless bloodlines is kind of big as you wouldn’t have to start collecting gold to go all in scouts.

You never research BL for scouts, not for the cost but because it idle your stable for almost a minute, you are better off training 2 more scouts, or getting BS upgrades. You get BL only when you already transition in some other unit (like xbows, which isn’t the case for spanish) or when you are aging up to castle age, in order to prepar it for knights.

Also, you’ll most likely be on gold anyway, to click to castle age and prepare for knights, so 100g isn’t that big of a deal.

@mrmicahmooshead

Idk if it is OP as it would be less bulky than light cav and slightly lower dps than knight while costing in between the two. The vill damage was to make it better at raiding since it is less bulky than the other two cav options.

4-5 SL can already snipe a vill (depending on how many atk upgrades you have) in a box formation, with all of them attacking at the same time. LC and knights needs to pile up and if you are lucky about 2-3 of them will attack.

Now are SL fine? No, of course. Is this what they need? Again, no. With +5 bonus damage it would mean that you need 3 of them, which isn’t a big deal, since you’ll put them in box formation anyway.

@mrmicahmooshead

The idea was more to make it easier to tech into sword line when needed, not to make LS a super viable unit.

It’s not that difficoult now, the only uncertanty is supplies, but it’s more of “knowing if it’s worth or not” problem…

[Szebo210]

@mrmicahmooshead

Long Swordsman Upgrade: Costs 120 food 50 gold, researches in 30 seconds

Two-handed Swordsman: Researches in 50 seconds

Champion: Researches in 75 seconds

Supplies: Costs 100 food 75 gold, researches in 20 seconds

My prefered militia-line “rework” (it is actually just long swords and two handed swordsmen):

Long swordsmen
+1 attack
-1 attack bonus versus eagle warriors
-Movement speed: +0,05

Two-Handed Swordsmen
+1 attack
-1 attack bonus versus eagle warriors
-Movement speed: +0,05

Champions
-Upgrade cost -100 food
-Research time: -10 seconds
-Movement speed: +0,05

Supplies
-Cost decreased from 150 food 100 gold to 120 food 70 gold.

@mrmicahmooshead

Steppe Lancer Rework: Costs 60 food 40 gold, 50 Hp (Elite 75), ROF 2.0 (Elite 1.9), Attack 10 (Elite 12), +1 Melee armor, +5 damage vs villagers, Elite Upgrade: 750 Food 450 Gold, Elite speed 1.5

My prefered steppe lancer rework:
-Cost decreased from 70 food 45 gold to 65 food 40 gold
-Rate of fire decreased from 2.3 to 2.1
-Speed increased from 1.45 to 1.50
-Elite Upgrade cost changed from 900 food 550 gold to 500 food 650 gold

@mrmicahmooshead

Hand Cannons and Bombard Cannons (not bombard towers) can be made before chemistry is researched. Before chemistry, Hand Cannons have -5 attack and -5 bonus damage vs infantry and Bombard Cannons -50% building bonus damage.

Making gunpowder before chemistry is bullsht, though I think chemistry’s research time is way too long, and handcannoneers are a bit too weak, so imo theses changes could make some sense:
Chemistry
-Research time decreased from 100 seconds to 90 seconds

Handcannoneers
+5% accuracy

@mrmicahmooshead

Franks:

• Castles 20% cheaper
• Bearded Axe and Chivalry swap ages

I’m not sure if this is needed but if franks still remain too strong this is a good way to nerf them

@mrmicahmooshead

Chinese:

• Start with -150 food -75 wood,
• Technologies -5%/10%/15% cheaper in feudal/castle/imp

Leave Chinese alone, the 95+% of the playerbase can’t get the most advantage out of their bonuses at which point they are op, and the top few percent can use meso civs deliberately to counter them

@mrmicahmooshead

Malay:

• Archers move 10% faster

definitely an interesting one, haven’t seen this idea before for malay but can work out. Altough I have to mention that giving a general buff to infantry may give malay an enough big buff that they won’t need this change

@mrmicahmooshead

Portuguese:

• Get squires
• Feitorias available in castle age, give 20 pop space along with taking 20 (you don’t need to make houses to make feitorias), Feitorias can be garrisoned by villagers to increase gather rate (a fully garrisoned feitoria containing 20 villagers would double its collection rate) and fire arrows (similar to TC fire)

squires: maybe, but not needed imo
strongly against feitoria available in castle age

@mrmicahmooshead

Italians:

• Foot archers are created 15% faster

italians are in a very good position curently, this is definitely unnecessary

@mrmicahmooshead

Cumans:

• 2nd TC built at faster (Idk how much)
• Siege workshop costs 150 wood

these are fine

@mrmicahmooshead

Burmese:

• Howdah gives BE +1/+2
• Get thumb ring

I have seen a good idea for burmese buffs: make the howdah effect a civ bonus and the UT should be something like +50% trample damage for elephants or faster “reload time”

don’t know whether free thumb ring is a joke

@mrmicahmooshead

Spanish:

• Military techs (not upgrades) don’t cost gold (This would be bloodlines, arson, and supplies)

I agree spanish need some little buffs but not like this

@mrmicahmooshead

Saracens:

• Madrasah affects the gold cost of all units

No please

@mrmicahmooshead

Koreans:

• Team bonus reverted to +1 range mangonel line
• Wood cost reduction affects siege units
• Towers +100 hp

koreans are fine imo, only buff they need is on water (for example reduction of cost of the hugely overpriced elite turtle ship upgrade)

@mrmicahmooshead

Vietnamese:

• Infantry armor upgrades free
• Get blast furnace

why??? unneeded

@mrmicahmooshead

Magyars:

• Hunters carry +100 food

too similar to goth bonus

[FurtherLime7936]

@Szebo210

Leave Chinese alone, the 95+% of the playerbase can’t get the most advantage out of their bonuses at which point they are op, and the top few percent can use meso civs deliberately to counter them

Oh and 95% of the playerbase couldn’t get the advantage of the Aztecs carry cap bonus pre nerf, and that never prevented the needed nerf to them.
Isn’t like all pro players agree that Chinese need a nerf.

[MatCauthon3]

at the going rate the next few civs to be nerfed will be Chinese, Lithuanians, and Vikings.

[Szebo210]

@FurtherLime7936

Oh and 95% of the playerbase couldn’t get the advantage of the Aztecs carry cap bonus pre nerf, and that never prevented the needed nerf to them.

I disagree with that or atleast I don’t believe that

[Szebo210]

@FurtherLime7936

Isn’t like all pro players agree that Chinese need a nerf.

if you wanna see pro player opinions, look at actual tournament pickrates, it’s not that often, because they are afraid of meso

[Szebo210]

yeah vikings need a hard nerf for sure, if it depended on me I’d certainly take away free handcart

[MatCauthon3]

@Szebo210

if you wanna see pro player opinions, look at actual tournament pickrates, it’s not that often, because they are afraid of meso

Hidden Cup 4 stats

involved in 100% of all drafts, most sniped civ by a factor of 2.