AoE4 is less interesting than AoE2 because its units lack ‘coolness’ and ‘personality’

I wish this were the case, you keep forgetting about age of empires 3, even at launch 3 had more unique units, buildings, and other qol things like fully functioning multiplayer, clans, etc.

Age 4 does have an emphasis on quality for -some- civs, others I feel it falls off (like Abbasid and Delhi)

Unique models are cool, age 2 and 3 also had this however.

Sure based on spheres of the globe, but they had more civs, it appears age 4 goes more for grouping certain historical groups or areas and cultures into the civs instead of them being strictly a certain “nation” and then each of these civs gets a distinctive cultural look, which I love and is for sure a strong point of 4, I just again feel like you’re overlooking 3 completely b

I believe my core argument here is “AOM had nine factions at launch”.
The way major gods function is by all means exactly the same as a faction or civilization. It gives you some unique buffs and unique units, some special abilities, and a distinct roster of options.This does not change even if it is not called a civilization.
Visuals aside, the difference between AOM major gods within the same culture/civilization or whatever you call it is also quite big. And there are three civilization/culture groups that are even more diverse.

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I actually believe the opposite is true with the exception of the GUI which I think just generally lacks spirit…

Each civilization has strengths and weaknesses and plays much differently from the others. At this point, the civilizations have character, even if you believe their units do not. They even “command respect” or as I would say they cause the enemy to play differently to avoid getting dominated by them, e.g.:

Abbasid - Camel archer, reduces power of enemy cav, typically people avoid playing too many horsies vs Abbasid because of this.
Chinese - Nest of Bees, good vs basically all things living, stubborn players who go infantry vs nest lose without springald support
Dehli - Elephantos with animation cancelling are ridiculous. Besides that, they have the scholar which makes Dehli one of the more unique civs. It’s extremely cost effective over the course of the game (to the point where it’s actually the best eco civ if you go for all the upgrades) which just forces the enemy to generally respect them.
English - Longbow, the best unit in the game in feudal age. Their attack upgrade gives a 40% advantage over enemy archers lmao Throughout the game
French - Second strongest feudal age unit that turns into the strongest castle age unit. Forces enemy to build spears early and delays their eco while the French have a vill advantage
HRE - The Prelate is really badass when it comes to eco advantage. You get 40% more villagers basically the whole game, and on top of that you get 900 gold a minute pretty much guaranteed in team games, which equates to an additional 23 or so villagers… Depending on how you build, this could be an additional 20-50% economy bonus!
Mongols - Mangudai, forces enemy into their base so their eco isn’t wrecked, and to build archers
Rus - Horse Archer, Streltzy, springald upgrade, amazing ranged strength in castle and imperial age

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I’ve played a ton of AoM and still had to go back and look it up to see whether we should count their release civs as being three (Greeks, Egyptians, and Norse) or nine (3 Gods for each of the Greeks, Egyptians, and Norse).

This is from the game manual. You can see here that each of the Gods grants different “Civilization Bonuses.” Accordingly, I think the most correct answer is that AoM launched with 9 civs. This feels fine to me. I prefer playing Isis and she feels far different than Ra or Set. That difference definitely exceeds the differences between many civs in the other Age games.

Similarly, on page 1: " In Age of Mythology you determine the fate of one of nine civilizations."

image

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Yes, AOM is my most played Age game but it has been a while since I played it. I know what you’re saying but I still think it’s a stretch to call them 9 civs. The choice of god is more like a sub-faction of a civ than anything else. They still all have more in common than not. In any case, I do like how AOM factions were designed and hope to see more outside the box civs for AOE IV future content.

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yeah, I hear you. obviously the difference between Isis and Set is tiny compared to, say, Isis and Zeus. I remember personally thinking that AoT introduced just one “civilization” and I still feel like that is true, to a certain extent. But things sort of shift underneath me when I try to apply it to other Age games. I feel like the differences between some AoE4 civs are no more drastic than one AoM culture’s civs are from each other. If we are seriously going to call the English, French, and HRE three civs, then we may as well call Isis, Set, and Ra three as well.

I still own the game guide.

I bought AoM the day of it’s release only to find out my PC didn’t meet it’s requirements. Didn’t play it until a year after. Needless to say I was a very sad panda. I remember spending that time just reading the manual and game guide countless times.

Thank heavens I could play AoEIII when it came out as it became one of my most beloved games of all time.

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haha yeah. I remember the very day I bought AoM. I bought it on Halloween at the largest mall in the US. I had to wade through an absolute sea of kids in costumes who were trick-or-treating from store to store. I got out of there fast and buzzed home to install. That was also the last day I played AoE2.

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I hope we get a AoMDE.

Such a brilliant game. Just like how AoEII got me into history AoM got me into mythology. What magical time to be a kid.

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Can’t agree more :clap:t2: well said

Stronger vils and a free Native American Scout at the start of the game

And you could send Envoys as scouts as well (and start with one aswell if I remember correctly)

And you could send Settler Wagons, which are better Settlers (I think you start with three Settler Wagons)

People also forget how many new mechanics were introduced in this game: Deck building, the Explorer and Treasures, Mercenaries, Native Settlements and Trade Routes and building wagons, only to name the “cooler” and flashier stuff. And all of this was common to ALL factions. I find the stuff introduced in 4 to be somewhat lacking in comparison.

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AOE3 did introduce a lot of stuff and I like it but it also feels like the most bloated AOE, the decks are a good example as it feels like a good portion of cards are too situational, rubbish or just outshone by other cards. The later games I think did not want to alter the core gameplay loop in any way so added things like meta elements and gimmicks (gimmick has a negative connotation but that is not intended here they can be good or bad)

The series has been dormant for so long I think it needed a reboot and a return to focus on the core gameplay.

I think this thread still holds water.

There is something to be said about Elephants not feeling as “cool” as they do in say, AoE3 or even AoE2. This goes for every other unique unit in the game.

A lot of the designs, whether it be their “portrait” (if you can call an icon that), their abilities and even model kind of comes across as neutered. Like they were holding back for the sake of either balance or historical accuracy, and end up feeling quite mundane losing the fun and style in the process.

I don’t particularly think that these cannot coexist, but I definitely think a lot of the units fun factor have been secondary to their priorities, ending up feeling somewhat deflating. All is not necessarily lost, the Ottoman and Mali update did many things to go against this initial notion of AoE4.

Looping back around to the Elephant, something that has been relevant lately; it is a great analogy for what is wrong. The War Elephant is slow, deals almost no aoe damage and has a very tame attacking animation–all while costing a fortune to make. Sure, it functions as a decent ram…but, why stop there?

Make it run quicker, make it cheaper, reduce its armour and damage and give it splash. Let the players have fun with it, even if it ends up being an oversized Horseman with splash–at least it ends up being FUN.

THAT is how you make a cool unit.

EDIT: I would say this even extends to buildings. While there is some great design work and modelling done for every single civilization, there are at times issues that hurts “coolness and personality”. Think for instance how Keeps are the same shape with stylistic differences. It seems they opted for this as to make Landmarks more unique and special (also because it would cut down the immediate amount of unrecognizable buildings to new players), but whereas Keeps are not mandatory and so are not everpresent, Landmarks despite their cool functions and unique looks become mundane from simply being required. The logic that is meant to make them each feel special is very much being held back in how they fit into the game and the frequency of which they appear. I would argue that you can still have a very much recognizable KEEP building that deviates from the current building layout they have. I would even go as far as suggesting replacing Landmarks whose buildings look too much like Keeps/Castles to amplify this effect, although I believe you can make Keeps to unique enough (yet still recognizably Keeps) to not warrant that.

Going back on the Ottoman and Malian comment, walls used to (and many still are) carbon copies of each other. They should have their own models for each civilization to properly express that civilization’s personality through material and style, just like Malian’s new walls.

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Yo creo que en aoe 3 lograron transmitir epicidad en los iconos de las unidades y muchas veces en su poder debastador dejare 3 de mis favoritos el jinete negro, el pistolero blindado y el arcabucero, incluso sus tonos de voz les dan un enfasis genial que te insitan a entrenarlos, pero no solo me limito a los mercenarios unidades como el cañon de cuero o el samuria representan bien eso

El jinete Negro


El pistolero Blindado


El arcabucero

y el cañon de cuero (por que me gusta la unidad xd)



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that is no longer posible. essemble is now robot entertaiment and some of them left for other teams outside ms. you can find more in sandy peterson videos in the last minutes (Tales from the Dark Days Ensemble Studios pt. 2 - YouTube)

only about half of ensemble became robot

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nice to know that info

It’s ironic that they were thinking of doing a MMO Halo for 2011 and they ended up doing an MMO AoE and Bungie, who thought of Halo as an RTS, ended up doing a kind of MMO Halo with Destiny…

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Not only design wise, mechanics wise, army playstyle everything feels the same. This game have the chance to become best rts at the market but they are afraid to create something new and they stick to aoe 2. Same units, same mechanics, same playstyle. There are few eco difference but that doesn’t make me feel like I am playing the whole civilization. It’s like sayin i want to play huns because they are raiders, kidnap, burn and then they have absolute same playstyle let’s say like rome which is discipline, order, composition, stances, building roads, siege engines. If i want to play like atila, huns like I don’t want this siege stuff in my army, make horses which can run around burn cities, make chaos.

When I have shamans I don’t want just casual healing I want auras, buffs, sacrificial mechanics.
The list can go on and on.
So much sick mechanics can be added but they are afraid of failure and that’s why the game will be replaced with something which will do this job in some way that every military unit of the civilization, would feel different.
Some may want to be more ambush, setting traps, other can overwhelm, third can be slow and steady, something like rome. Some can take the advantage of the map, some can use dogs for or wild animals.
I know isnt easy task to do all the stuff, but for god sake don’t make new civs while this civilizations play exactly the same in terms of fighting.

Making Byzantium or Italy or whatever with same man at arms, same archers, same horses and only few different mechanics feels exactly the same. Boring to watch , boring to play.
Just my 2 cents.
Hope the devs think about it.

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Age of 4 some civ unique units are underpowered. Jans, mangudai, elephants, camels are so underpowered. We see archer, spearman, maa fighting youtube videos. Pros dont choose unique units. They are all boring.

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