Are Camels balanced?

Am I missing something, but AFAIK indian camel riders only get pathetic +1 PA and +6 attack against buildings? Yes, they have imperial camel riders, but only in imperial age.
How on earth is that unit supposed to replace versatile all-around power unit knights?

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They are not.
Because Indians have one of the strongest economic bonii of the game (villager discount, which ends up saving thousands of Food down the line), they cannort have very population-efficient units like Knights and Battle Elephants, otherwise they would be able to spam them and would be the strongest civ by far.
To compensate, their Camels were buffed to be a bit more like Knights, but not quite, so they would still have decent raiding Cavalry, and an answer to Paladins, without having Heavy Cavalry of their own.

It is also important to note that Indians have recieved a good number of nerfs over the years, because they were still OP. Their original Camels were actually better than Knights.

Viper, in his UU Tierlist video, actually said that Imp Camels are as good as Paladins, and rated them very high.

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Essentially we are coming to conclusion that Camels can’t be used in any TGs unless Indian :-/
So we have a mainline Gold unit (not UU) which is not useful.

Imp Camels >> against any Cav unit in the game.
But it’s one specific civ only. Its exclusive to Indians.

Imagine if Paladins were exclusive to Franks, then this discussion would have been different.

Assumption: Any civ who has Camels, if they researched X technology, they can get +1 armor or +2 bonus against Spear line/EW makes more sense. Then we will see lot of camels than just Indians

If they are a mainline unit how come only 1/3 of the civs get them?

If camels were intended to be good vs units besides cavalry they would have a higher base attack and lower bonus damage

Then the Camels bonus attack vs Cavalry should be applied for EW.
As mentioned they are unusable for Meso civs.

Logically it doesnt make sense too. Camels eats Cavalry, Cavalry eats EW. :smiley:

Why? They aren’t intended to br an infantry counter.

Cav archers, hand cannons, trash. All good vs meso.
Use some halbs to tank

pikes eat cavalry, cavalry eat archers. Should pike beat archers?

Yes I want to buff ONLY and ONLY Caste Age Camel Riders with only +1 attack to them for the reasons I explained before

As I noted before too, Heavy and Imperial Camels are well balanced due to the doubling of the Anticav bonus to +18

Except we’ve already proven that camel riders take favorable trades. So what’s the point of the buff?

If the buff is to make them better vs cavalry, they already trade efficiently and dont need to be better
If thd buff is to make them better vs non cavalry, why bother bringing up the cavalry bonus of heavy and imp camel.

Again I fail to see your logic here. How do you always get from the first sentence the second statement?

I’m asking why you want camels buffed. You make conflicting statements.

If the point of your buff is to make them better vs non cavalry, why does the Heavy and imperial camel bonus damage vs cavalry even matter?

Its erroneous data

How is it conflicting? The fact is that Heavy and Imperial camels are very much viable in their respective ages due to the big bonus, but the castle age camels don’t even have that in their resume.

At the same time castle age camels do less dps than trash units.

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Except weve already proven that camel riders do just fine against knights. Both equal numbers and equal with time spent making them. Either way camels come out ahead. They don’t need buffs vs cavalry.

As for vs trash literally only 2 trash units do more dps then camels. Light cavalry and hussar. And neither of those are actually good for much beyond raiding and taking on archers.

Camels literally aren’t designed to fight non cav units.

If thry were they would have a higher base attack (like say 9) and lowrr bonus damage (say 6).

As I said

Basically Indian, but also Malian and Saracen can use them, as I’ve seen several times in team games. Berbers don’t do it so much but it’s because camel archers are a better power unit.

Really, I don’t get this logic. It’s normal that camels are useless against civ that don’t get cav. Also they aren’t much more useful against civ that barely use their cav like Ethiopian. Of course giving them a bonus against archers/siege just for that matchup wouldn’t make sense as well.

not only that, but that bonus would be busted against infantry. +18 attack? holy crap.

Eagle warriors have their own armour class so it would only affect them.

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I would like saracens to get +1 attack for their camel line, so they can go for camels in castle age as their main unit. I agree that camels are underwhelmed in attack, but again, they’re designed to be a defensive unit

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I agree
This is very true. More people should realize this, and a slight buff to camels must happen now.

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Totally agree. 17 was too small though and most of us asked to increase it and devs jumped it to 26. Something in between like 22 should be better. But it won’t change that much since FU halb can still kill FU Heavy Camel in same number of hit. For this reason I want the extra +1 melee armor for Indians to be back and reduce Spearman lines bonus attack against Camel in way Indians Camel can kill a castle age Pikeman in 1v1. This will make Indians camel OP in TG pocket though as they are already insane in that position.

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