Hi,
I used to be Norse main but I’m looking to trying Atlanteans a bit more.
I struggle a lot with late game economy. Is it worth heroizing citizens slowly at the end game? Or is it not cost effective?
Thank you.
They become more pop efficient when they become Heroes especially with Theft of Fire researched from Prometheus. Using Valor Titan Power many times on your Citizens is a good way to get many Hero Citizens over time.
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If I remember correctly, though someone can correct me if I am wrong, it is best to convert citizens to heroes after you have maxed them. The exception being if you take Prometheus and research his god tech that improves hero citizens. Then it is best to convert them to heroes as soon as possible because they quickly repay the cost of the conversion to hero.
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In the late game the limiting factor for your economy is the maximum number of Villagers.
Hero Citizen allows you to get 10 Villagers ahead.
- If we assume that Theft of Fire increases Hero Citizens’ work rate by 20% multiplicative (so 1.1*1.2) it takes them roughly 4.5 minutes before you break even; before that it’s a loss.
- If it is additive, so 1.1 + 0.2, it takes about 5 minutes to break even.
- If you have no access to Theft of Fire it takes roughly 9 minutes to break even.
- For Gaia, who has cheaper Hero Citizen but no Theft of Fire, it takes about 7 minutes to break even.
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Hero citizens have +25% hitpoints and are affected by armory upgrades. Lategame this makes them 103.5% more durable than regular citizens.
Formula
125% / ((1-0.15)^3) = 203.5% (each armory upgrade is -15% damage taken)
They deal 43% more damage
11*1.3/10 *100% = 143% (armory weapon upgrades)
They gather and build 10% faster
They counter myth units.
Someone already calculated how long they take to pay back but main reason to heroize citizens is because they are essentially immune to dying to godpowers or raids. They can also help you defend or push forward.
Regarding their direct combat effectiveness, unfortunately I couldn’t beat Regular Extreme AI without miltary units and making only Atlantean Hero Villagers. Mainly issue was that I couldn’t allocate all pop and my economy wasnt great because I was fighting with the vils. You can beat Titan AI with just villagers though.
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Hi every one ,
Thank you all for your answers. So I did some testings and would like to hear your opinions about it:
A classical age citizen gathers berry at 1.2 while a hero citizen gathers at 1.32. By doing some math takes 10 minutes for the upgrade just to pay it self up. At mythic age using the same method for It takes roundly 7 minutes for the upgrade to pay itself up.
So I really don’t know if it is worth it. Especially thinking that You start heroizing citizens around 25 minutes and then the game ends at 30 minutes, then you have actually just lost some resources instead of gaining any (Cause he heroizing didn’t get enough time to pay itself off)
They are definately worth it if you went for theft of fire (+20% gather rate on top of the 10% for being a hero). Dunno if in this test you mention you had it. Also keep in mind matchups. Hero citizens wont be harassed by myth units, so having one in each resource spot to defend is also valid use
I didn’t test it with the upgrade cause I wanted to have raw results (and because I personally don’t go that minor god). But it indeed will make huge differences.
And as I said I really don’t see any major point in promoting as heroes except when you go promethean… the reason I asked this is that I was struggling a lot with food as Atlanteans which was very weird for me since I have never struggled with food as other civilizations.
Most of the time, paying for the hero citizen is just a late game thing. Good thing is unlike in legacy theres no extra pop involved in the hero citizen so its just raw economy. Struggling with food as atlantean is more of a macro thing than having hero citizens or not. Most new atty players i see hoard wood and lack food, dunno if this is your case, they usually bank like 2K wood and when they realize just spend it all on farms.
I see. but the thing is in my personal opinion getting it has a good chance of leaving you with negative resources rather than increasing your economy. Although it is true that hero citizens are more durable and build slightly faster, I was just trying to compare certain economic benefits.
Although hoarding wood and then transitioning to farms abruptly is a common mistake I make, It is a mistake I make with every civilization. I think the fact that Atlantean citizens cost as much of 2 villagers and are not as good as 2 villagers (and they take 2 population space) is affecting Atlantean late game economy quiet a bit. I tested this with heroizied citizens in classical age and compared them with Norse villagers. Bare in mind that Norse villagers have slightly lower gathering rate cause they have ox carts and ox carts can improve villager effciency. (As I am typing this I just realized that the fact that Atlantean villagers don’t need to move as gathering is quite a bonus and maybe single handedly be carrying the entire Atlantean economic bonus).
with all of this in mind, Although I think Atlantean economy is decent, but heroizing villagers just for the sake of economy seems like a scam. Unless you have chosen promethus as a minor god which changes everything.
Its not all gather rates, having no drop time also turns into better economy for atty. Part of the atty eco manegement is moving citizens from one resource to another with little downtime, just like norse can keep moving ox cart to minimize travel distances.
And yea, most of the time speding the resources in hero citizen without theft of fire is just for the late game where other upgrades are already made.