Are hospitallers lacking?

I may not play aoe3de anymore but I found the whole faction was not great.

People discuss it but are they top players who really understand balance?

I would say Germany is/was the top civ, then Japan is also considered OP. Major ‘changes’ are usually not coming that change this.

So, I’d say dopples, while they may have some pros and cons, are better than hospitallers, because they’re part of a better civ.

But Germany doesn’t rely on them. Hospitallers however seem almost like a ‘core focus’ of Malta. This makes them vulnerable too because for any bonuses, they are easily countered by cannons or any infantry, and overall weaker. So making too many is just wasteful.

Germany usually just spawns some of those, and dops are powerful units that helps, defeats cavalry and solid against anything.

I’d still give the edge to Germany in terms of early game,when timing getting dopps vs getting hospitalier.

Because AoE3 has a strange complexity, and inbalances, some factions just outright aren’t as good; in aoe3 certain civs just all around are better.

Malta suffers from a problem of ‘trying to do everything at once’, but not specializing in much. It is a lower tier civ. Nothing it has seems exceptional.

From memory, Malta ‘has’ to eventually tech into cavalry or something to counter, if they are in late-game. Infantry like this can be countered. I also remember they some kind of good cavalry bonus too, which seems to be strange when their focus is on the other weird units/things.

Of course when you are just playing, by far, most players are not top players, doing their boring optimal strats. Also teams plays slightly differently too, and is not as important as the real balance.

They don’t excel well at anything imo and so even in late-game or deathmatch, they just didn’t seem good. Theyare a ‘meme civ’ taht does a few cool new things, but most of them are cliche. Such as the fireworks man and the unique abilities.

I would like to see if a top player thinks otherwise, but, most of these are noob speculations I see.

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balance at all levels is relevant, and by definition the “top players” will always be a small group (because that’s what makes them the top players). Experienced players, almost regardless of raw ELO, know melee infantry is basically useless unless you get really good positioning or some foolish player went full cav. If you can pop a batch of 1000res worth of melee infantry into a roughly equal group of skirms, it almost doesn’t matter which unit it is, you’ll clean up that fight pretty well. Samurai, hospis, dopps, skulls are probably the best at it, but even the ol 9 rodeleros will snare and clean up skirms if directly shipped into the correct position - once you force a skirm into melee, you’ve already won. As far as hospis specifically go, as I’ve stated above pretty much all the 200ish res 2 pop melee infantry are strong for what they are but generally fall short in that there’s almost always better ways to spend those resources and population. Malta struggles generally because their options are so limited so hospis almost look optimal (almost).

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I think the problem Malta has is it’s a defensive civilization, and most people prefer aggression over defense on aoe3.

also to add, melee infantry continually gets less relevant the bigger that armies become. The exception here is using their siege power to push a side build or something similar.

This especially affects malta because it scales slowly and wants the game to go late… except its roster disagrees.

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Hospitallers having pistols, ranged resist and deflection actually makes them better than most melee infantry in the late game though.

I rest my case. (20 characters)

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The defense is fine… or would be if it weren’t for the fact that they got an economy reliant on non defensive natural ressources.

Unlike, let’s say the dutch, which are too a defensive civ but got the toolkit for it’s economy.

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Well yes and as said, I think their cav boost is better than anything else. Don’t they get free cav upgrade or reduced cost? but still, that isn’t saying much. It just happens their best strength is to hussar rush, yet there is probably 2 other civs that do it better.

Yes, all order units have free upgrades. One of the things I don’t understand though is why 3 out of 6 of the tongue cards give cavalry. It’s a bit of an overload, amounting to FIVE CAVALRY UNITS. WHO NEEDS THAT MUCH CAVALRY?!

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laughs in lakotan
:stuck_out_tongue:

I just now realized the Lakota get six cavalry options. Geez! The crazy part is that for centuries, the Native Americans hadn’t even seen a horse.

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Playing as Italy or Malta, I did not notice any noticeable bonuses from deflection. As soon as the unit’s health drops to 1 (and in mass battles this happens within two minutes), the deflection stops working. But the economy was still weak.

The Hospitallers lose completely against the Samurai. And the fire throwers do not have time to kill them. So the mass samurai countered all over Malta. (especially now that they were given grenade launchers) You can also take 10 horsemen to frighten the crossbowmen, and an easy victory.
The Hospitaller is a unit that hits all cavalry well, including dragoons, and can better absorb damage from skirmishers. But against other melee units it is absolutely useless. (Except for the rodleros, of course :D)

The problem is not that Malta plays defensively, but that the defense in this game does not work. I’ve been playing strategy games since 1996. In all strategies, one tower of the first grade can stop a squad of 10 units (Any). In this game, the tower is destroyed by two hussars or 5 musketeers. With the loss of one person. That’s why Malta is so weak. Defense structures must work in such a way that attacking a wall with three towers without mortars is suicide.

1 - Yes.

Agree this shows a very bad design of the nation hahaha

I completely agree. The choice between a caballero and a cuirassier is stupid. They don’t need oprichniks at all. They already don’t have enough army limits.

:smile:

Yep, oprichniks should be replaced by a streltsy card or something (but it should still allow streltsy to train in batches of ten).

The Russian “Tongue” wasn’t really a thing, so the fact that the Order somewhat migrated to Russia should be represented in a different manner IMO

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So maybe a Swedish Tongue card or some other Euro civ?

If you want to see the different tongues here’s a link.

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Bruh (20 characters)

So, Italian Tongue would be the most historically accurate?

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Yes, and there is actually one in the files. But it would be OP so it wasn’t added. Some renaming of tongue cards and the addition of a second French tongue card would be most accurate.

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what would Italian tongue have done to make it op? Send and enable architects I suppose?