Aren't Hussite Wagons too similar to Organ Guns now?

If you put them side by side, it feels like Hussite Wagons are just a strict upgrade over Organ Guns.

Organ Gun | Hussite Wagon
Damage: 35 | 31
Accuracy: 0% | 85%
ROF: 3.45 | 3.45
Health: 60 | 180
Min Range: 1 | 0
Pierce Armor: 4 | 7
Melee Armor: 2 | 0
Range: 7 | 6
Cost: 136 | 180
Speed: 0.85 | 0.92

They both have identical firing patterns, but Organ Guns miss single targets with most of their projectiles. Organ Guns cost 2/3rds as much but have 1/3rd the HP. Organ Guns have minimum range, but Hussite Wagons don’t. Organ Guns after their UT are significantly faster. Both are weak to mangonels, but organ guns can die to them in a single shot AND do 5 damage vs 8 for hussite wagons.

In essence, Hussite Wagons are more expensive organ guns that are otherwise superior in every way. And that’s not even mentioning their unique effect.

It makes me sad, because I actually liked their original idea. The upcoming nerfs only serve to make them more similar to organ guns, but if anything discourages using them the way they were meant to be used.

Personally, I’d like to see the latest changes reverted entirely. Give them a different effect, like giving them faster fire rate the longer they stand still, or letting them unpack to remove their attack delay, or something like that.

3 Likes

I agree. I’m less concerned about the relative strength, yes I know castle age bohemians are terrorizing the ladder, but that’s a balancing issue.

Design-wise, though I’m quite underwhelmed with the Hussite Wagon. For reasons that I can’t imagine, FE re-worked the Organ Gun so as to be less similar to Janissaries only to then turn around do the same to Hussite Wagons.

There have been people out there that have suggested that you could garrison units inside the Hussite Wagon, and it’d increase it’s damage. IDK if that’s the BEST idea, but it’d at least be UNIQUE.

I already proposed that organ guns should rather fire in rapid succession and for my taste hW should have lower dps but higher HP and conversion resistance, possibly even taking less damage from siege.

I think then they would definitely be more destinct.

Though I have to admit that the “blanket fire” of the current organs is really cool.

IMO, the devs should increase its cost if they really want to nerf something. Some units are not OP when people can’t mass them

You know, why not do THAT with hussite wagons instead?

Take away the shotgun spray; instead, give them a fire rate of 0.7!

That way they just inherently work best if they’re allowed to sit still and fire. They can still be microed, but because of the low per-shot damage, it won’t work anywhere near as well. And they’d fill an entirely new niche of rapidfire gunpowder!

I don’t think HW should stay the kind of damage dealers as they are atm.
It’s not that Bohemians would lack high DPS units anyways.
Imo they should be an addition for Bohemians in the midgame against other stronger Archer civs and Siege additions where Bohemians currently struggle against in the midgame.

Imo the basic concept of a frontline unit for their squishy archery units was fine, just they didnm’t found the right stats for that in the beginning.

But ok, whatever. I wouldn’t be against that change, actually quite curious to see how a rapid fire UU would fare in the current game.

3 Likes

Well, I think the big problem with the current Hussite Wagons isn’t actually their DPS per se, it’s more to do with their combo of high damage, low fire rate, high hp, and no minimum range. They can kite basically anything forever. They actually do less DPS than Organ Guns technically, (though that does become a bit hidden because of the different accuracies), it just doesn’t matter because their HP is high enough to kill anything chasing after them anyway.

Changing their fire rate would fix that. It would make microing them much more difficult and apm-intensive. It would reward letting them sit still and instead microing other units around behind them. It would essentially let them fill the role they were originally designed to fill!

The more I think about it, the more I like it!