The idea is to have a generalist skirmisher that is weaker against archer but deals damage similar to what a new player would expect. without elite skirm you are missing 5HP, 1Atk, 1Rng, 1PA, and 1 anti archer BD and 3 anti CA BD. Restrict this to a UT and make sure siege and ships aren’t affected and i think this would be somewhat balanced. It would be countered by siege could easily by out-microed by archer, CA, and HC but would also gain utility as harassment unit used to punish the enemies advance.
Okay but why though???
Skirmisher transition is already one of the most expensive transitions in the game, requiring Ballistics, both +2 armor and +2 attack and a 230w 130g Elite Skirm tech that takes a long time and delays 2nd TC, siege shop, Monastery etc., along with sucking Wood at a rapid pace in early Castle age where it’s a precious resource, and you want to make it even harder?
This unit would be completely OP. It’s like archer and skirm in one single unit. And it would also completely destroy other skirms. It would also kill siege.
We had this kind Idea like several times already. And it just won’t work cause how the game is designed. Pierce Armor is just so essential for a lot of units to properly work, the game is so heavily designed around that mechanic that you can’t just ignore it. It would just break the game.
I specified that it would not work agianst siege. Also siege is already immune to armor penetration. I haven’t test it but all the downside of no elite skirm really add up they have closer to their target making them even more vulnerable they have only 30 HP, against CA they are missing and 4BD and they can be killed in 6 hits by elite Mangudai. Also, what do you do against longbows?
It’s an attempt to create a more historically accurate skirmisher. the role Skirmisher have in aoe2 always annoyed me not They somehow have the same range as
arbalest and deal comically low damage to everything else it not that they are not Balanced it just that they are very specialized and in a way that doesn’t make sense. Being hit by a javelin should hurt a lot and a killing FU Hussar should die not take 95 Javelins. I dunno know give it to incas they could use a buff.
It’s an interesting idea, I’ve considered something like it for some of my American civs (both the Muisca and Yucatec UUs I designed have some features of a generalist skirmisher). The trouble is that archers/skirms are so finely tuned that it’s hard to change them very much without either making them OP or creating a huge weakness. In this case, the skirmishers would be pretty bad until you can get a Castle up and get the UT, in the which time Xbows could do game ending damage. Whether or not this unit would be useless or broken also depends a lot on the context of the other bonuses/strengths of the civ it belonged to.
After the tech, I don’t see this unit being OP, and its range makes it iffy against well managed xbows. Skirms have such low base attack that even by post Imp, the unit does only 2+4 damage. They also fire 50% slower than archer line, so the DPS is equivalent to an arb that does 4 real damage (what arbs do vs. FU Cavalier), but with less range and minimum range.
So I think the concept is fine, but I would use it for a skirmisher-type UU rather than the generic line. That gives you more freedom to customize the unit without imposing weakness on the main skirmisher line. I also think that while a ranged ignore-armor unit is viable, it should cost gold because even with a slower attack, it will generally have the DPS of an archerline unit.
How is this even a discussion? You have a skirm that does 4 damage to knights in castle age. 6 damage to tarkans, huskarls etc in imperial age. No thanks
I can see that it can be OP.
But as long as you give it to a civ without knights, bbc and elephants, then I guess something can be done even if they have elite skirms. Without bracer ofc.
Onagers, light cavalry, eagles and shrivamshas would still rekt them just like any other skirms.
You mean siege and ships will ignore armor too? No, then forget it. This is def OP.
10 hits to one shot an eagle. With basic skirms with bracer. Please come at me bro.
Waste 50g on my free skirms. I won’t even need to focus fire. Bare minimum pike meat shield and you’ll get annihilated.
Sorry meant to say aren’t affected
Yeah a UT which allows skirms to ignore armour could feature for a new civ in a future expansion. Could be cool, could be fun. If the civ is poorly designed/balanced it won’t be fun.
Why does this need it’s own thread?
You are right.
It’s like a hand cannoneer with minimum range against eagles.
But this time costs no gold.
if it was a gold unit then I guess it could be balanced through its cost. Otherwise by giving the civ huge holes in its tech tree but that’d might make them unplayable.
Yeh, that’s why I say valid concept, but should be a gold unit/UU