I completely object to your comparison with Japanese cavalry, I said that all the values should be based on the real situation of the actual battle, the actual situation is that it is very easy for Japan to obtain the daimyo and the shogunate and the Kinkakuji Temple, their reinforcement cards are not too many to easily fill the entire deck, and it is also easy for the consulate to use the closed country, which is why people have been complaining for a long time that Japan is too strong, because his means of obtaining buffs are too easy, If Iroquois can be as easy as Japan, I will not ask the developer to strengthen, not to mention that the Japanese cavalry is almost one of the fastest troops to slaughter skirmishers, and with ultra-high-strength musketeers, he is one of the strongest countries in military strength, as for why not simply ask for strengthening, because I know that Iroquois is still an excellent country in the treaty, with almost the most resources for war in the treaty, although excellent but not enough to upset the balance, for such a civilization, You give him a cheap and powerful cavalry and he will become unstoppable, so I gave him this option, if you want to have a strong cavalry, you have to give up your resource advantage, use expensive resources to train, if you don’t want to give up resources, then you can only use one of the worst cavalry in the treaty, I hate to see a version of the enhancement update, the next year is for his balance to be infinitely weakened, the production team always has a poor grasp of the strength of the indigenous country, Like the Aztecs now being discussed, he has received some updates before, but most people think his balanced direction is still unreasonable
I agree with your assessment of the Iroquois cavalry in ordinary games, they can cope with the general game, not so bad, so I have been asking that the strengthening should be placed in era #### ## even era five, but the treaty mode I have my own understanding, I am the strongest group of treaty players, and I only use the Iroquois for a year, I don’t know if you have carefully observed his cavalry, once you leave the chief’s aura, he becomes very vulnerable, most of the cavalry will die on the road if they can’t even get close to the enemy, Many masters use cavalry not only as a shield, when the opponent’s operation is wrong, a group of excellent cavalry can quickly impact the opponent’s formation and directly expand the advantage, which you will feel very obviously when facing France Spain Japan, if you have experience against Japan you will be impressed by his cavalry, the unlimited cavalry card with the effect of the Spanish consulate and the assembly point of the daimyo, so that his field is almost always full of impact, this is a very good technology cycle, Perhaps Iroquois can get the Cuirassiers of unlimited fast shipping to solve this problem, after all, they have obtained fast ship dragoons, but that card does not play any role in actual combat, and many deck builders will not bring him, because Iroquois’ own dragoons are good enough
but again you cant make your argument of real situation in actual battle when that completely depends upon the game you are playing, getting the shogun or setting the temple on hp is not a regular occurrence in 1v1 supremacy.
if we are talking about normal 1v1 games then as platypus_slayer1 has stated they have their own unique advantages in their civ.
if we are talking about treaty then everything I have said about their lategame hp still applies, they are still on par in range hp with port and dutch hussars, respectable but not top class. there is will be a fully buffed community plaza which while you may not be using for attack most of the time, you can still benefit from and if you just increase the war chief hp range then you get their hp buff more.
and as for lategame supremacy, that might as well not even exist
japan hasnt been considered too strong in 1v1 since atleast 2021
like im pretty sure that haud is considered to be better then japan at the moment
vs japan in treaty why make kanya at all? LC outrange FAs and contribute great dps after murdering their artillery, , FPs outrange yumi, and MR beat nagis and yabusame fine while being high hp for a goon. Also kanya get cleaned by ashi and yabusame and samurai etc plus yumi en mass do solid dps. You can also overpop between fights to close the gap of japans more pop space due to less villagers to keep parity of eco. You completely dictate the flow of the battle with your units. splitting and japan bs like shogun motaru spawns arent really the problem of haude but a bad design from TAD devlopment. ideally, you punch early on and grind out japan with your better units and micro/macro for good fights
i also recomend checking out jaegerchere vids and juilianK, their haude often shows how you can compete with the usual civs of france, japan, spanish with nats, germans etc (MR/FP just shit on germans , spanish nats are varied, and ofc france is just very good).
I would also recomend waiting till pup drops and seeing if the native combat cards and haude tree eco changes will allow more deck space and fix the issue of kanya being not economic, then see if they really do need a buff for treaty
The point I disagree with is that if you are discussing the treaty, you should not compare the Japanese cavalry without any buffs with the Iroquois, which is certainly unreasonable, in actual battles, most of the Japanese cavalry have two daimyo halos plus Kinkakuji health plus arsenal plus closed country, which is easy to achieve, and Iroquois can’t even reach the data you show, there is no chieftain aura and even the deck does not have any cavalry enhancement cards, I have gone to the test suit to study the latest card set, Livestock and logging took up too many slots, and the Iroquois cavalry in the treaty was too far behind the Japanese in terms of strength
I am not giving examples of how Iroquois fought against these countries, but to show that it is crucial to have reliable cavalry when you want to advance, just like when I use Japan, once the opponent makes a mistake, the cavalry will quickly kill the stragglers in the opposite formation, and the ultra-long mortar will immediately blow up the opponent’s forward position, which basically sets the foundation for victory, but when I use Iroquois to advance, the speed will be very slow, if you are too anxious, the light cannon will be entangled with the troops. And the enemy has enough time to retreat and build walls, it is difficult for me to expand the advantages I have worked so hard to build, if there is cavalry above the level I can use it as a shield, give my subsequent villagers time to establish a forward position, and chase and kill the enemy’s disorganized troops, these things even the Dutch and Portuguese cavalry can do, but Iroquois is difficult to do, they can’t even train in an instant on this classic map of the treaty in the upper Andean section. Even if the result is updated, the result will be the same, now the deck must bring environmentalism and a new training acceleration card, bring a full set of logging, indigenous people and livestock cards, there is only one card slot left for the cavalry, this one I will of course choose the shield card. Cavalry is still not available in the treaty
So we should consider that everything is about supremacy even when the topic specifies that it is also considering treaty issues?
You’ve already made it clear that you despise the treated mode and that’s fine. But you must stop believing that you have the authority to stop others from talking about the treaty.
Natives civs are much harder than euros or even TAD civs in treaty. Again, you meed to micro your cannons to ensure nothing can touch your units from afar, then force fights. Lc burn through buildings pretty fast. Also, speed 7.98 MR or 7.43 kanya can exploit any holes and raid eco with impunity. As for cannons, well learn to dragbox and you can do all sorts of cheese with LC dodging shots and returning to fire with their quick animation. 10 or so backed by FPs with MRs to swap vs any cav is a game winning army in anymode tbh.
Iro is hard in treaty because you have to constantly being juggling plaza, WC, unit micro, and cow eco all at once. Yet its considered a strong civ because those who can juggle all of this find the civ will simply bulldoze people. Dutch and ports.are.civs that can bleed out so good cav is ok cause their eco replaces these units easily. Haude, like lakota, needs to keep pressure and aggresion forward as much as possible and not depend on high hp cav to tank, but instead be the one choosing the shots. Think glass cannon sterotype.
In short you dont really need cuir types to tank and given haudes overpop tricks and buffs it might be op.to have spammable. And the whole point of the civ isnt to be huss/inf spam bot civ #67 but to be. Very balanced ans hard learning curve civ with high ceiling. Unless 1v1 where you cam just rush to 1500 XD. Hope that helps explain why they dont, its ok to disagree but i think ive explained why haude doesnt “need” stronger kanya for anymode really.
arguably I would add that mantlets can fill the tanking role far better than kanya ever will. I know they’re not exactly meta but they are very strong in that role.
I don’t particularly picture the Iroquois as being cavalry civilization anyway.
Any civilization needs to face the problem of advancing in the treaty mode, Iroquois is very bad in this regard, you can disagree with me, but my actual combat experience is that when I get the advantage, I need to advance, high-level treaty players will control their long-barreled cannons to retreat and then use the range advantage to hit my light cannon, light cannon will be walking around the crowd because of its own collision volume and cannot counter the opposite long-barreled cannon in time, this is the truth, no matter how the operation is, The disadvantage in range is irreparable, no cavalry can only watch the opposite side, put up a formation, advancing with infantry is a very painful process, for this will lose a lot of points or even be turned over, I just sent this post in the hope of getting a cavalry that can be used in the treaty, even if it is assault infantry, I am really tired of every advance is the same script, I need to have the ability to pursue the opposite side, not hard to establish an advantage but can only slowly wear down, Iroquois is essentially a European civilization , he is not the same as Lakota, Lakota has a stronger and better attrition war than Iroquois
to add on to this convo, Jaegerchere noted on his pup video that haud has also received a buff to their train time due to one of the cards getting a buff so maybe with that just the fact you dont need to be on the train speed reduction ceremony might be enough of a boost just to have it on attack ceremony more
Wampum now also decrease train time by 20% for all units so cav has a net -65% train time reduction while war hut units get -75% reduction
a point noted in the video that should be noted was that he noticed that the train time didnt become instant with the train speed ceremony, i think this is because the ceremony works on final values for the train time and not base value
so after all the train time reduction, the effect of the train time ceremony might only be on the order of 3-4 seconds reduction in train time
if my math is correct, the train time in the pup for the cav without the ceremony the same as train time for them right now with the ceremony
July 2023 PUP Patch | THIS PATCH IS A BLAST | AOE III: DE Patch Rundown - YouTube
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The Iroquois have many Indigenous reinforcement cards, and in treaty mode, they usually use Indigenous battles. If training acceleration is not used, compared to the vast majority of civilizations with universal training speed acceleration, their Indigenous training speed is too slow, which will always put them at a disadvantage of less fighting and more fighting on the battlefield. Secondly, the light cannons on which they rely for survival extremely require training speed, and the advantages of light cannons lie in their fast training speed and large quantity, Even in the current version, skilled treaty players can still easily counter the light cannon with their long barrel gun range advantage. The new card can only reduce artillery training time by 5%. Without training acceleration, the Iroquois will soon be suppressed by artillery fire and lose the game. The original intention of this card is to liberate farmers working in Community practice. Now it only takes ten therapists to achieve the same effect as before. European civilization has two factories and the best economic technology. The aboriginal civilization not only has low planting efficiency, but also needs a large number of farmers to enter the square. This itself is unfair in the late game, and all aboriginal civilizations should receive such similar compensation, If such reinforcement can be called a disruption of balance, then simply delete civilizations outside of Europe and rename the game Age of Europe 3
Haude has slightly less eco on farms because of power of cow boom, and plaza counts as extra vills (healers are roughly 14 vills, close to 2 factories worth) and you get less train time because fertility dance/attack boost/overpop allows your units to train as fast, over mass, and then trade very well. Also again, culvs dont target lock so you can dodge them with LC and LC have almost no set up animation. For 2 less range and same los. They things murder enemy artillery in the hands of people who know how to dodge and kite.
Out of all the treaty civs haude doesnt need buffs; just maybe stuff for team games. But i get the feeling you are very determined so my best advice would be try and ask julianK on a stream or jaeger or conqueor to demonstrate their haude.