August PUP

Not a cavalry civ, at least on paper. They now have arguably the best scout rush in game though.

Why not Burgandians?

Italians, Goths, Dravidians

Incas

My bet is also on these 2.

Removing Arbalester, BBC.

they absolutely are a cavalry civ. they lean more into the camel side, but this is absolutely a civ that relies most on its stable.

because i think the nerfs they got are going to get tweaked in a way before the changes go live. my guess the stable discount gets nerfed.

Italians need buffs on open maps only, and small buffs at that.
Goths just need a rework all together and i give up on that civ.
Dravidians I’m not sure one way or another what to do with.

nah. Incas are mostly fine and at best could use a VERY minor buff.

I prefer to distinguish Camel from Cavalry.

Should have clarified the assumption before.

Maybe not after the patch. Small buff required pre-patch. After the patch, a bigger one is probably needed.

11

Soon to be Goths 2.0

Seeing their pick rate in TTL is as low as Bengalis made me cry. Same for Slavs.

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I mean i get it, but it just isn’t Camels they have, and the Stable is their bread and butter.

shrug. maybe.

ehh not really. they aren’t that bad on land maps, they are a solid closed and semi closed map civ. it’s only open maps where they have issues.

yeah. both these civs just need to be redesigned imho.

that has more to do with being “bland” then anything, i think. maybe have fabric shields slightly increase infantry speed.

Yeah. Same for Malay and Portuguese. But unlike these 2, Italians is not a strong closed map civ candidate either.

aoestats and aoepulse differs a lot on Italians in closed map. aoestats showing 53% on closed map 1700+elo. While aoepulse showing 50.85% on arena 2000+. So a big buff will bring to 53% at best on arena/closed map imo. Not a big deal. Safe approach will be make GC cheaper to train and upgrade.

Because one is tracking one map and the other is tracking a category.
arena is a closed map, but not all closed maps are arena.

i agree making EGC cheaper to upgrade is a good idea. as for the training cost of GC, maybe 5 wood cheaper.

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Well chinese maybe the discount rate

Franks forage bush reduction or maybe not free upgrades for mill but reduced

Britts i honestly think they need an adjustment on the TB

Mayans discount

And Poles maybe the folwark but I rather thought about reducing the stone to gold ratio

Or are these ideas too harsh @MatCauthon3

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That and CKN cost increase imo

just remove the forage bush bonus imo

here’s the problem - in 1v1 they are fine. in team game they are not. so how do you nerf them in tg without impacting 1v1 too much? honestly i think the team bonus is the way to go but honestly not sure.

Mayans imo need multiple nerfs.

not sure honestly. i listed some ideas.

nah most are fine if you ask me.

Swap it with Civ bonus maybe. And then give them old Incas TB.

After the archer powerspike nerf, it is time to nerf Eagle. And unlike 1 time powerspike, they need a permanent nerf. Your cost increase proposal was good. Although I want just a flat 5 food increase in cost. Then we can buff Incas.

Whats the current cost bc i saw alot of people just say +5 gold

Yea they are still strong with just the farm bonus

Honestly you could nerf eagles but then 2 other civs suffer aswell maybe mayan uu cost increase ?

Would love to know your ideas

In my expierence as i am rather low elo i encountered alot of scouts into castle as they mostly minef stone into knights and or obuch

Especially scorpion. I still don’t know the reason behind scorpion having bonus damage against them. Bengalis bonus is almost useless against them.

That bonus was aimed for war elephants with mahouts

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I think I would prefer this, to final armour as their hussars become absolute monsters then.

But makes sense with the Castle age nerf.

Yeah true. I guess it varies depending on elo though

Makes sense. Would certainly make them easier to play on open maps, much less susceptible to raiding. At that rate maybe even 5% is still viable and maybe drop the cost on folwarks by 5wood? ie the folwark itself is more useful(not only saving build time but now also a small amount of wood instead of mill +house), but the overall economy isn’t as oppressive.

And the same case with halbs /pikes against war elephant, so more reason why elephants in general should either have bonus elephant armour or reduce elephant bonus damage across the board and give WE negative elephant armour class.

Like they did it for the various cavalry archers, rams and ballista elephants, why not for the rest of the elephants.

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It’s a good idea. Remove the elephant armor class and give BE and WE negative values

Not that big of a problem though … nerf their TG play, the civ doesn’t become useless, they might just be below average like so many other low pick rate civs but you handle two things, less negative experience from fighting 10 range arbs, and team games get a little more biodiversity.

And/or give them compensatory buffs with the nerfs if need be.

As others mentioned, change the TB to 10% for starters, or remove it completely. Give them something that has nothing to do with archers(Eg militia line +2 LOS) so they get a wider tree, but not as oppressive. Eg like magyars TB.

Or as previously discussed, remove the bonus range in castle age. You still have a great eco, xbows are still trained much faster, and ultimately still get 9 range arbs, still outranging everyone by 2.

Why don’t Koreans have +3 range onagers? Why do Italians have to pay for garbage pavise? Why do mediocre tier civs get sucky UT, while Brits get it for free?

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Only +1 range but they have thumb ring. Elite Longbowman range is 5 same as Arbalest and Yeomen gives Longbowman -30% gold (500f 300w 45 seconds). Hussar and Paladin is available in Stable.

Italians get +1/+1 armor to archers in Castle Age as civ bonus. Pavise gives +1/+1 armor to infantries.

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The bonus exists since AOK. Mahout was introduced in AOC. So the bonus was there bcz they realized pikeman +45 bonus damage is not enough and gave another option to counter WE. Now with halberdier, no reason to keep the bonus for scorpion.

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They may be “ugly” to you but they are one of the most highly requested mods given the difficulty of modding unit sprites in AOE2DE. Also if it is an event mod unlock, you need not keep it if you don’t want to. This QOL mod would be invaluably more useful than pumpkin head knights or snowmen M@As.

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Agree that Sicilian nerf is bad and uncalled for!
They are by no means overpowered and have already been nerfed in the past; and even before the nerfs have they been overpicked or overpowered? No.

As someone who plays them regularly, their knights get checked by xbows or other knights rather than their counter-units. It hurts the basic character of the civ, like taking away britons +1 range as someone else used as an example.

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