Axemen Regional Unit

[M00Z1LLA]

Pikemen Problems

Neither of the two new civs utilized pikemen to any significant degree. Poland did not field pikemen other than as mercenaries from the west, and Denmark abolished pikemen decades earlier than most nations. Furthermore, the Pikemen of both civs are an excellent example of how to bungle a royal guard unit (the Poles because Scythemen deserve to be a unique unit, and the Danes because you can’t get any more lame than “Royal Pikeman”). There are also the Russians who correctly don’t have pikemen, but their equivalent unit is literally just a Lieutenant and not an actual type of soldier. All of these civs would greatly benefit from an alternative unit that fills the pikeman role.

Axeman Unit

Historical Usage

Axemen could be a very fitting regional unit that covers the archaic heavy melee infantry position for Danes, Poles, and Russians.

The iconic Dane axe was used by the viking ancestors of the Danes, and this weapon evolved into the Bondeøks which saw continued use by Norwegian militias well into the timeframe of AoE3. Bondeøksmann is also a much superior royal guard name than “Royal Pikeman”.

In Poland, axes were part of the kit of the piechota wybraniecka, and axes were a common Polish and Lithuanian weapon of earlier times. They also feature prominently in Polish heraldry and there’s opportunity for wordplay about Poleaxes.

The Russians have their signature Bardiche axes and axe wielding guards like the Rynda

Appearance

For Poland and Denmark, their axe wielding troops were peasant militias. As such, the unupgraded version should be relatively lightly armoured and wield a generic axe that would be available to peasants and the veteran upgrade could give them a bit more armour. The regular guard upgrade should arm them with a bardiche as this was used by both Russians and Poles. For the Danes, their royal guard upgrade should turn them into bondeøks axemen with that unique looking weapon.

Danes

Poles

Russians

Function

The role of this unit should fall somewhere between pikes and halbs and the cost and strength should be more like pikes. Maybe something like 15% resistance 3.5x multi versus cav, 11 attack, 4.75 speed, and other stats similar to pikes. They could even have slightly stronger siege capability pikes, but be limited to melee siege attacks like Macemen.

Axemen could also potentially lean even more towards the Halberdier side of the heavy infantry as Poruchiks are already like that and Danes and Poles could have other units take more of the anti-cav role. Poles could have Scythemen as a unique unit with more pike-like stats. The Danish royal guard for halbs could be Atgeirmaðr and it could give them a better anti-cav multiplier.

Cards

Axes are obviously a tool as well as a weapon and were used by troops for collecting supplies and building fortifications. A card that lets axemen chop wood and build structures is an obvious one.

The Norwegians took their fancy bondeøks to church to show them off, so a card/tech for Denmark that lets Axemen train from and/or garrison inside Round Churches could fit.

Russians could have a card that swaps the wood cost to coin to help alleviate their expense.

[Kingfisher1787]

@M00Z1LLA

The role of this unit should fall somewhere between pikes and halbs and the cost and strength should be more like pikes. Maybe something like 15% resistance 3.5x multi versus cav, 11 attack, 4.75 speed, and other stats similar to pikes. They could even have slightly stronger siege capability pikes, but be limited to melee siege attacks like Macemen.

Based on averaging an age 2 adjusted halb (-20% attack and hp like the shadow tech applied to Cassadors in age 2) and a pike together you get something like:

~152 VS in cost
4.625 speed
140hp with 15% MR.
~30.4 siege.

15.2 melee with a 1.5 RoF and a 4.25x against cavalry (yikes, averaging a high damage unit with a high bonus unit makes something scary).

Taking another view of damage calculation, averaging their post-bonus vs cavalry damage together you get about 42 (slightly lower than a halb) and then dividing by 4.2 (close to the number from before) you get more like 10 x 4.2 against cavalry.

Anyway, mathematically interesting.

[platypus_slayer1]

My honest to God inital thought to hearing axemen in aoe3

Roggan

[MatM1996]

Yes, but here he would be a modern axeman…

[HoopThrower]

I’ll always wonder why they decided to name the new Russian melee unit Poruchik rather than Opolcheniye or something.

[M00Z1LLA]

Because Opolcheniye are already in the game. They’re just awful at naming things and called them “Northern Musketeers”.

I think Poruchik is the result of a big brained moment equivalent to Lakota’s hawk bowman and thunderbird rifleman. They went with Rekrut merely because it sounds like rusket and decided an officer is obviously the fancier version of that.

[GalacticSet8679]

The polish pikeman could be a Dziesiętnik

[M00Z1LLA]

Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t that the same kind of thing as a Poruchik? The picture below shows them as a distinct thing, but other references of similar looking guys appear like the polearm is just for command.

In any case, Poles already have a great pike alternative in the Scytheman. It’s just that they should probably be an age 3 unit so that’s why I suggest Axemen for age 2.

[GalacticSet8679]

Yes. They are similar. They are the tenth man among polish infantry who use a spontoon or halberd like weapon. They are similar to a sergeant and their name translates to “tenth man”

[Soaring_Crow]

I sort of understand why they went that RG route for the Danish Pikemen. The whole thing with the Danes is having royal guard upgrades for all their regular units. It would have been annoying to have to constantly clarify that “all standard Danish units have RG upgrades…except pikemen”. If that Reddit thread is correct and the Danes still used pike & shot tactics up until the Scanian War… well that’s enough justification for the developers to make an elite pikeman variant for the Danes. As for a better name… I don’t know. Reference the Queen’s Life Regiment or something, Dronningens Pikeman maybe.

As for the Polish Scythemen, I don’t know why they weren’t a unique unit. They should have been either a unique pikeman or a halberdier-type unit for the Poles. Oh well…

[M00Z1LLA]

@Soaring_Crow

It would have been annoying to have to constantly clarify that “all standard Danish units have RG upgrades…except pikemen”. If that Reddit thread is correct and the Danes still used pike & shot tactics up until the Scanian War… well that’s enough justification for the developers to make an elite pikeman variant for the Danes. As for a better name… I don’t know. Reference the Queen’s Life Regiment or something, Dronningens Pikeman maybe.

If Danes have Pikemen then absolutely they should have a royal guard upgrade for them. But if that’s the case then it needs a non-zero effort name for it. Atgeirmaðr would be a decent name for a royal guard pike. Though in the time of AoE3 atgeir actually referred to halberds so I think it would be a better royal guard name for them instead of using Drabant/Trabant for the third time.

What I was going for with Axemen was trying to kill two birds with one stone. It would give civs that shouldn’t have Pikemen a reasonable alternative, and it bypasses the problem of the poorly named Danish royal guard Pikemen by just giving them an alternative unit. Danes are also lacking in unique units so replacing pikes with their axe wielding Norwegian militias is a little something extra to set them apart.

[vanBladdeck]

But isnt the whole point of danes, that they dont have a UU and instead have a complete euro standard roster?

And… i also get the idea for axeman for russians, but since some of the pictures are strelzy and those are firmly established in aoe3 as awefull against cav, i think it would be difficult to establish a similiar looking unit as anticav.

Completely on board with changing names of the royal guard and the porushik

[MatM1996]

@Soaring_Crow

As for the Polish Scythemen, I don’t know why they weren’t a unique unit. They should have been either a unique pikeman or a halberdier-type unit for the Poles. Oh well…

@vanBladdeck

But isnt the whole point of danes, that they dont have a UU and instead have a complete euro standard roster?

Yes, strange, because what was leaked back in 2023 about the Baltic DLC was that the Polish were going to have the Scythemen and the Polish Lancer (the Dutch Red Lancer and the Revolutionary France Eclaireur) and the Danes the Espingol (as true UU, not a reskinned Organ Gun)…

The July 2023 Public Update Preview build (which later became update 14.43676) contained remnants of Polish and Danish revolutions. The remaining assets included their revolution flags (which were quickly removed when the PUP was updated), some strings for a few unit names and technologies, and the model for one of the cut units:

• Denmark would have featured Royal Grenadiers (Heavy Ranged Infantry with Promotions and “armed with a powerful musket to defeat infantry”), Espingols (likely a unique Danish Artillery unit replacing the Gatling Gun, as Espingols were historically a precursor to the modern machine guns), and a Royal Oldenburgs card (that would have allowed them to train Royal Grenadiers and allied the player with the House of Oldenburg).
• Poland would have featured Grand Hetman (possibly a hero), Scythemen, and Polish Lancers. The Polish Lancer is the only surviving model, as variations of it are used for Revolutionary France’s Eclaireur and the Dutch’s Red Lancer unit available through the namesake unique Church technology.

In the same update, the Royal Guard upgrade for the Uhlan was renamed from Czapka Uhlans to Prussian Uhlans, another hint that something Polish could be in the works, as Czapka is known in English as a word for the 19th-century Polish cavalry headgear. Although the unit was cut, the Polish Lancer’s animation file was reused for the Eclaireur, and it was later updated so that the original, Polish version of the unit required an unavailable technology, strongly suggesting a Polish Revolution, or Poland as a civilization, would be coming to the game in the future. On January 31, 2024, it was announced that a new expansion for the Definitive Edition with new civilizations is in the works.^[1] On February 23, 2024, the flags of two new civilizations were revealed.^[2] The flags are the royal banner of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth during 1605-1668 and the flag of Denmark in use since 1748. While the official names of the civilizations was not conveyed, Adam Isgreen, the Creative Director at World’s Edge, referred to them as Poland and Denmark.^[3] The expansion was scheduled to be released in late 2024. However, the release was postponed to a later date.^[4] On January 28, 2025, it was announced that the expansion was canceled, and no further expansions will be added to the game.^[5]

In a Twitch stream from the ESOC channel interview, the developer Tilanus emphasized the diversity of cavalry troops in the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, which could have been an in-game strength for this civilization. Tilanus also emphasized the historical power of the Danish navy, which could have been an in-game strength for Denmark in the economic and naval areas.

[M00Z1LLA]

@vanBladdeck

But isnt the whole point of danes, that they dont have a UU and instead have a complete euro standard roster?

I don’t think that’s intentionally their schtick. It’s more just a consequence of Danes not having a lot of good options for UU. Axe wielding Norwegian militias are actually a good opportunity for something a little more unique. Potentially they could be a UU for Danes only, but making it a regional unit does solve some issues for Russians and Poles too.

@vanBladdeck

And… i also get the idea for axeman for russians, but since some of the pictures are strelzy and those are firmly established in aoe3 as awefull against cav, i think it would be difficult to establish a similiar looking unit as anticav.

That’s a valid concern for sure, and I could have had some better reference images. Most of the bardiche carrying troops in Russia and Poland would have been musketeers and streltsy who used them as secondary weapons. However, militias like the piechota wybraniecka and opolcheniye would have been much more crudely armed and just had peasant axemen in their ranks at least in earlier eras. The Russians also had higher ranking axe wielding guards that look pretty sick.

They definitely should look distinct from Streltsy to avoid any confusion. I would say in age 2 they should be more or less dressed like a peasant as shown below. Apparently there’s a heroic tale of a Russian peasant chopping off his own hand to spite French invaders.

In later ages something similar to the look of age 2 Poruchiks would be a good fit for Poland and Russia and means the old model is not a waste. I found some better reference images for Russians. I’m not sure of the dating for all of these, but the caption on the first image says ambassadorial axe which would be from the 1600s and the caption on the armour set in the last image says 1600 which are both in the timeframe. I wish I would have come across these pictures sooner because these axemen have got some swagger.

For Danes, their royal guard version could look like the guy below in later eras.

[M00Z1LLA]

@Kingfisher1787

yikes, averaging a high damage unit with a high bonus unit makes something scary

Yeah, the Pikeman anti-cav multiplier is so ridiculously high it makes just averaging them give crazy results.

What I’d want is a slightly more generalist unit that is a bit worse against cavalry. Maybe something like the following:

Cost: 45f/45w
Speed: 4.5
Health: 120, 15% MR
Melee: 13, 1.5 rof, 3x vs cav (same as musks)
Siege: 16 (melee), 1.5 rof

I’m not sure if costing 10 resources more and being slightly slower is enough to compensate for 5 more attack and an extra 5% ranged resist. I’d expect that would make them perform about the same vs ranged units because it would be harder for them to connect. They would absolutely clobber Pikemen though, so maybe a slightly higher cost would be needed or slightly less health.

[Kingfisher1787]

Not sure the Russian ones would work. 120hp becomes 96hp after the shadow tech. With 4.5 speed I’d imagine a musketeer-like melee could be fine, but idk if it’d actually be better than a slightly higher hp and a lower base attack with a higher multiplier against cav to ensure the unit functions for all three civs.

[M00Z1LLA]

What do you think the issue would be for Russia? 96hp for a unit that costs only 68 resources doesn’t sound too out of line. That’s very close to the stats of an Insurgente. Also, being so weak, I think it would make sense to bump up the batch size to at least 6.

My concern with increasing health would be that 120hp is a break point for a lot of ranged units. Even 1 hp more means they’d tank another hit from xbows and skirms.

[SvenKuechler1]

En el napoleonic era, los Rusos tenian como unidad unica el “Poleaxeman” se creaban en lotes de 8 y creo que el lote valia como 250 de comida y 100 de madera pero fue hace años cuando jugue el mod asi que no me acuerdo como eran todos los detalles, quien sabe ya que revivieron al age 3 es posible que añadan a esa unidad.

[ArkadasLlisa]

I highly doubt becauae it wasnt added to the game in the russian rework

[SvenKuechler1]

Uno nunca sabe probablemente lo hagan, lo que me gustaria es que pongan como nativos a los Suizos, con unidades como el Reislaufer y el “follower” en mapas como los alpes.