Azap + falcs has no counter for civs without culverin

Azap falc is a much stronger version of janissary falc. Because azap has 4x multiplier vs light cav at range and has more range, it is impossible for light ranged cav to snipe falcs. Azap also performs much better than jans in melee vs cavs.

So the only counter to that is culverin, or your own falcs.

Civs with no culvs are dead. Lakota, inca, haude before age4, india….

Indian one is tricky siege elephant is counter to falc yes. But they are light ranged cav so they take huge bonus from azap…when azap is body blocking in front the siege elephant die faster.

The developers obviously only considered European civs for balance when they designed this azap unit. They shredded all cavs, light or heavy. Any cav is impossible to get close to falcs. They ignored civs that don’t have culverin when designing this unit


Stat-for-stat, they lose into Rifle Riders and Tokala. The issue for the Lakota is their eco isn’t set up to mass either of these units very well and with the constant nerfing to Lakota cavalry, the wide array of cavalry the Lakota have are now just kinda pointless because you have to rely on infantry, which goes against the original design goals of the civ.


small note siege ele dont have the cavalry tag so they actually dont take that much damage in melee from pikes and azaps

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siege elephants shouldn’t have the light cavalry tag, and here’s more evidence


omg, that would make them only vulnerable to culverin and meele, and would be very hard to catch them as they are really fast.

Developers destroys the game very patch, this game is unplayable. Please give the option to ban civilization on lobbies.

they’re 4 speed and countered by goons because they only have 30rr and are still artillery. They cannot outrun literally just musketeers. Horse artillery with trunion outrun cuirassiers, just so we’re clear

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Maybe buff Siege Elephant speed to 4.5? They have 28 range, whereas Falconet have 26 range, and do not need unlimber to fire. They can literally snipe Falconets guarded by Azaps and run away.

That being said, I agree that I am a bit confused about the design of Azaps. Were the Ottomans so weak against massed cavalry that they need an cheap anti-all-cavalry infantry? The unit is essentially a Pike+Xbow hybrid for 90 resources.

You are crazy thinking about an indian buff hahaha


Why? (Honest question) Are the Indians already very good?

How often do they get to melee when they die to mass azap at 16 range lol

Just open editor and see equal pop of rifle rider and azap who wins. Remember azap cost way fewer resources, has 4x vs rider rider at range, and has range resist.

well, nobody will use muskeeter nor cavalry to follow siege elephants defended by any cavalry or musketeer counter. Siege elephants are difficult killed by culverins, if light infantery dont have bonuses versus them, only culverin would kill them efectively, but siege elephants can easily move to other place on the map where culverin will have to move too.
Siege elephants are really good, and making light infatry lose the bonus versus them, would make them really overpowered, because only culverin could catch them, and a culverin is a very fragile, slow, and expensive thing, a very difficult one to protect its like protecting a turtle that doesnt have defense agaisnt nothing only versus antiartillery, please dont make light infantry lose bonus damage versus siege elephants, its ridiculous. I would play all day using india, and many people will stop playing because would be unbalance.

If the problem is the azap then nerf the azap or give siege elephants have resistance versus azap

You missed half of what I suggested. Throw the Tokala into the Azap to put them into melee, then use the Rifle Riders on them. Tokala will be able to tank them fairly well and do a bit of damage themselves but Rifle Riders have enough of a bonus and Azap have low enough health that the Rifle Riders will be 3-4 tapping the Azap.

honestly, truly, did you just ignore what i read about the ranged cavalry? artillery is meant to be resistant to skirm fire and all standard European artillery with trunion researched are faster.

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And btw. Azap is getting buffed next patch. Base damage increse to 8 from 6, multiplier from4 to 3. So they do better vs all units, and still do same 24 damage ti light cav…

I have tried that in this matchup it doesn’t work. Tokala cannot be massed, so i have to use axe rider. Problem is azap has too high a multiplier they melt heavy and light cav so fast. It is not cost efficient. Also azap has a lot of cards, and can be produced very quickly potentially if it goes to lste game. Also the counter to azap for lakota, wakina rifle happens to be a fragile low hp skirm, which die super fast to cannons, just make things worse. They also barely out ranges azap (18vs16) so you can’t even micro down the azaps without dying to cannons.

I’m just gonna go ahead and quote my entire first statement again so maybe you’ll actually read it this time and realize I addressed all the points you’re responding to me directly about.


Currently azap is not the meta…people still make janissary because they do more damage to general unit. BUT, next patch, azap is gonna do equally well vs ranged units per resource. 3 azap is just as strong as 2 janissary, while being much much better anti cav. Maybe the azap will become meta next patch and people realise how op it is.


I agree to your point that’s why i didn’t mention it. I saw it. Im complaining lakota is too weak to otto currently which is same as yours

the point being is that the body blocking aint a real role for azaps when fighting siege eles.

you just want to fire and run

if the siege ele has like 30 range then tbh a gurkha siege ele comp kinda shits on the azap falc

and siege ele can use the extra range anyway

edit: thinking about it further, i think most civs have a couple of decent plays (culvs asides) against this

like I think this will hard lose to just mass yeoman longbows

china can just go hand mortars

ethiopia can just use the their own mortars to met the azaps and then dive.


the couple of civs that i think will have a really hard time is haud, lakota, hausa, japan (maybe just flaming arrows yumi might be enough) and india (though again india can just flip this if the ele has like 2 extra range)

not sure how inca fares with the upcoming huarraca buff.

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