Hi everyone, as the title suggests, the Aztec sacrifice that allows you to obtain 6 mythological units in the mythic age needs some work. It’s not so much the mechanics themselves, but the units that can be sacrificed. I don’t think it’s fair to be able to sacrifice 15 explorers or any other economic units. I think that for the right balance, the sacrifice should require units with a minimum of 3 population. Anything else is too economically advantageous.
One thing I don’t like is the randomness of the Myth units you get.
Make it give you 1 Ayotochtli, 1 Obsidian Butterfly, 1 Tzitzimitl, 1 Ahuizotl, 1 Tunkuluchu and 1 Soul Guide so that way you always know what you get which is 1 of each of the 3 unique Myth units from Heroic and Mythical ages.
I like the fact that it’s random, and it’s better that it is, otherwise it would be too powerful. You always get 6 free mythological units, without a favor cost, it’s already very strong as it is! In my opinion, it would make sense to sacrifice more expensive units for 6 free mythical units rather than 15 cheap scouts or soldiers.
Having a Great Sacrifice giving 1 of each of the Heroic and Mythical age Myth units is better themed from making a Great Sacrifice to each of the Heroic and Mythical age Gods/Goddesses thus getting help from each.
Randomness sucks especially if you have 2 Aztec players playing against each other and you get bad luck of the Myth units you get and opponent gets good luck. Some less randomness in the game makes it better and prevents some situations of it being too good. Balance is better then imbalanced.
If they were always the same mythological units, it would be a bit too predictable. I like the randomness, but I respect and appreciate your opinion; it makes a lot of sense. Unfortunately, I don’t like free units without investing, and as things stand, the game is like this… 15 scouts and 6 mythical units… A bit broken
They’re all easily countered by heroes. I’ve never seen the Great Sacrifice swing a game. If they raise the unit costs, they’ll just stop using it altogether.
I don’t like it being random, But I also don’t like that you can sac 15 explorers.
I agree with you that sacrificing explorers should not be allowed but 3 pop units will make it super expensive.
3 population units is a bit expensive, but there are also 70-resource soldiers that significantly lower the cost. It would cost 1,050 resources to create 6 mythical units without paying a favor cost, which still seems too low to me. Perhaps the value could be raised to 18 military units, excluding scouts, which still cost 1,260 resources (70-resource units) for 6 mythical units, which is all in all acceptable. Scouts should be excluded, I think that’s an objective opinion.
Everything in the game have a counter, but here we’re talking about resource investment. If I decide to spend resources to create an army of 15 soldiers, I’ll spend a certain amount of resources. If I decide to sacrifice it, it will actually give me too much in terms of resources spent. Explorers, with an excellent economy, are effectively as if I weren’t spending any resources at all, and the investment would be almost free.
unless you are at max vills, sacrificing spies is not worth it because you are idling your TC for a full minute (-4 vills).
15 spies = 15 * 45 = 675 resources
15 spearmen = 15 * 70 = 1050 resources
4 vills gather the difference in ~a minute and a half.
And if you are at max vills, resources don’t matter that much, especially since the spies cost the same amount of gold as the spearmen.
Either way, it is supposed to be a unique power spike for the Aztecs. It doesn’t need to have equal cost and payoff. It is part of their kit and should be balanced around the entire civ.
Not equivalent, but not particularly or extreme convenient either. We’re talking about getting 6 mythological units (120 free favor on average) and about 1,500 resources (average of 6 mythical units) with a sacrifice of 675 resources from spies (ok, I don’t produce colonists in the meantime), but the investment/return ratio is too high. It’s possible that it’s an Aztec mechanic, of course, but it needs to be balanced. At least I’m fine with the favor being free, but the remaining resources need to be balanced. I’d at least opt not to be able to sacrifice explorers; otherwise, it’s fine.
It is def worth it and is the best course of play always to do it with spies.
The value you get is worth way more than being a couple of villagers behind. The whole point is to do a big early mythic power spike with this, the Incarnate, thr god power and the army you had before.
I get the pov where this is coming from, in games where people Just have resources to spare due to poor macro, but this is generally not the case. Theres a long strech imo between being full vills and Just being able to afford anything and everything.
Theres plenty of high level games where you can see the outcome. Theres videos on why hutz specially has such strong timings and part of it is this.
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I watch “high level” games almost every day and have never seen a losing Aztec win due to the Great Sacrifice. I hope that in the next 30-40 games I watch, I will finally see this case.
It’s not that you make the sacrifice and automatically win the game, you simply have a gigantic advantage over your opponent with very little economical invest.
Then add more free and bad elements and, magically, winning games becomes easier.
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Thats not how things go… Its not i click i win. Its part of the powerspike. With such exagerated métrics you impose it checks out nothing you see ever meets them.
Exactly, its part of the whole early mythic timing. All things add up.
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I explicitly stated in my post that the Great Sacrifice doesn’t swing the game. You told me it turns the tables at a “high level.” I responded that in the “high level” matches I’ve watched, this doesn’t happen. You’re telling me it makes a significant contribution to victory. If your opponent is stuck in Age 3, you have the same military resource value, and you move to Age 4, then you’re on track to win. The Great Sacrifice doesn’t change anything.
In the video you posted, I saw Kido dominate the entire game, starting from the Archaic Age. And he won when he dropped the Tlaloc idol on the gold mine and killed 10 vills.
And we finally reach the point of our discussion. “Free Mythunits” have finally arrived.
And I see the same thing every time. When free mythunits appear the game is already decided.
In this match, as Huskuppe perfectly highlights, the victory came not only from the player’s skill, but also from certain “tricks” that allowed Kido to avoid investing in almost any military units, or at least only in the final stages after dominating his opponent. This is an example, but these “tricks” actually provide incredible power when combined. But then, excuse me, Huskuppe also stated how broken these interactions are, and he’s certainly no newcomer to competitive gaming. This isn’t about eliminating sacrifice, but rather toning it down and making it more fair. Beyond sacrifice, there are other “tricks” that should also be fixed, but those will be for another post!
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Ok, but it’s not about the great sacrifice. Once it was made, it didn’t change anything.