Bad Treasure Balance

how does this treasure make sense?

at least split it into multiple guardians so heroes with aoe and lack a one shot ability can more easily take it.

Why don’t you make 1 single topic with all of your random doubts and suggestions instead of flooding the forum?
Posting every half a hour really makes it hard for everybody to track interesting calls and discuss.

This is not a chat. It’s a forum.

If you want to chat or demand send them a email or FaceTime them. If you want to read and listen to ideas this is the place.



different topics, different posts.

if you have anything to add about this specific topic, feel free to do so. else if you have something to discuss with me personally, please use dm.


Its ballanced, because non-european heros have an advantage in other occasions. e.g. American natives vs. 1 carib blowgunner → they get a free support unit


these two situations aren’t comparable. in melee mode blow gunners deal half the damage and have 150 less hp, meaning even those without a one shot or conversion can safely, if somewhat slowly take the treasure.

you cant outplay(melee) the polar bear with a melee hero like you would with a ranged blow gunner, and there is no way to apply aoe to maximize damage and clear speed to reward positioning. it also hurts even more civs than the blow gunner since you cannot convert it.

there is no other low tier treasure that harshly harms such a large amount of civs like this one. either you can take it safely or you cant, and it should be changed in a way that makes it more accessible to all civs.

its fine if a treasure favors some civs more than others. but this is too extreme.

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Understand your point, but which civs actually struggle vs this treasure? All euro civs are ranged explorers that can 1 shot this, african civs can stun and kite it, all the asian civs can stun it with 2 units attacking, usa can 1 shot it, lakota and haud can 1 shot it.
Only civ that is slightly at a disadvantage is aztec but there warchief is beefy, you can use the special attack and have a scout attacking.

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You know the trick with luring the guardian and when he retreats you start attacking? …so you can kill it with little hp loss. Also african Heros can kite

using an Incan explorer as an example, the polar bear deals 80 more damage and takes 12 more seconds to kill when compared to a blowgunner. that’s a massive hp swing and a large amount of time wasted for a low tier treasure, again there isn’t a similar low tier treasure with such a difference between civs.

the treasure in itself is badly tuned and should be replaced with something more reasonable as befitting its status and reward, and be more comparable with similar treasures. the gap between other treasures and this one is silly.

just compare it to 2 coyotes, there is a 2.6x hp difference for the exact same reward. a full 260 hp. thats not a minor variation. no other similar treasure has even half the hp pool, even with a greater reward. this makes it easier to micro and kite them, and for melee heroes to isolate a single one to reduce damage taken. that is not possible for polar bear with melee heroes.

there are numerous in game examples of treasures that are better balanced around all civs. notice how variation for 60 wood and 65 wood is confined to a 10 hp range difference. even you if increase leopard hp by %50 to match others its still a 30 hp difference, not 260.:


Yeah it doesn’t make sense why a treasure with 50 wood has 1 polar bear and a treasure with 60 wood has 3 wolves. But honestly it doesn’t really matter.

i was talking about african and asian heros. Ofcourse i cant include all heros and circumstances in one short answer :roll_eyes: also my carib blowgunner example was like the first that popped into my mind and as the sentence indicates: it wasnt meant to be a 1:1 equivalent to your polar bear, but an example for other circumstances, the non-european heros have an advantage. If you preferre, we could - instead of the blowgunner- talk about pirates, pistoleros, renedagos or ronin.

Whenever there is a differnce between the hero abilities or treasure guardians, you can argue about them not being ‘ballanced’. e.g. incan ability has splash damage and you can damage all 3 wolfs siginificant if not kill them. etc. etc. point is each hero has its ups and downs and i like the difference

Not only it doesn’t matter but also is not important in any way - they are only in very short and highly competitive games where these amount of resources can make a difference.

They are optional small boosts and amusement for first two ages, and an incentive for exploration. There are exceptions - rare treasures, guarded by like 8 bandits, have things like huge boosts to hero hp.
For the most part, they are small pools of free resources and xp.
Once you get past age II hero explorer has no problems with killing (tanking) guardians.

When you lack one shot you for example tame that animal and be able to get more heavily guarded treasures before enemy hero can recharge his ability enough times to kill these guardians. Civs are balanced in different ways, some heroes can deal with strong single guardians, some prefer multiple weaker ones etc. Try to look at a broader picture.

Treasures are not meant to be balanced and make perfect sense. World and life don’t, why a minor part of the game should? I’m fine with a small jar of honey worth 30 food attracting 2000hp bear. Who cares. Leave it as a map decoration or trap for the enemy explorer.

but that’s exactly my point, there is no similar low tier treasure that uses those units. a 50 wood polar bear is as silly as a 50 food pirate or ronin. this isn’t a small anomaly, its a massive variance with some major implications to gameplay. that the bear isn’t convertible makes it even more so.

you cannot outplay a pirate, ronin or polar bear with most heroes. you either have an ability that deals with them or you suffer a huge loss in hp and time, and the ronin will straight up 1v1 most heroes in age 1.

there is far more gameplay that even melee heroes without an ability can do with 2 coyotes or 3 cougars instead, such as luring one just outside the others leash range and dealing with them one on one for less damage at the risk of being stolen, or bunching them up to kill them faster with aoe at the cost of hp.

you don’t need an ability to viably take these treasures, and there are micro opportunities with tradeoffs to help manage them and create a skill gap. whatever hero you use, there is a viable way to safely take on 2 coyotes or 1 blowgunner without needing an ability and the game is better off for it.

meanwhile a polar bear is a huge sack of hp that just bludgeons you in a battle of attrition. there is no gameplay involved aside from calculating you have enough hp to survive. and that’s the biggest issue. there is no skill expression and a massive difference between civs, the challenge doesn’t match the reward, it requires you to use an ability to viably take and its just not fun simply waiting for your hero to beat the life out of them.

even euro explorers suffer from this. the correct way to taking out a 2 polar bear treasure is to crack shot one, and then wait for shot to come back to kill the other. trying to kill the bear itself takes so long that shot will almost be back up, and you’ll lose half your hp doing so. we literally have a low tier treasure guardian where the only wrong choice is trying to kill the guardian normally instead of using an ability, that’s peak aoe3 age 1 gameplay right there.

this is how I will close out my argument on this matter. the bear has less opportunities for engagement and micro than other similar treasures. the game would be both more balanced and fun if it was brought back down to baseline power relative to its reward. increasing gameplay while at the same time not requiring certain abilities for a low tier treasure will result in a better age 1 experience for all civs.