No
Is still a broken tech flemish rev tbh, against archer and gunpowder civs all that Burgundians need is field either coustilier or paladins and you have probably the most OP army for arena.
Also the cost isn’t even a negative thing when Burgundians eco is omega.
I haven’t once lost to flemish (16xx elo).
I struggle to understand why people die to it, you know it’s coming, you can prepare for it. On arena the paladin HC BBC timing is much stronger after a quick 3tc boom with the sick eco behind it, flemish is more of a desperation move usually.
Maybe remove the bonus against cav and the unit makes more sense, but even then it was calculated by SOTL that the cost of the tech is so immense if you don’t win in 5 mins time you are behind enough to alt f4. Besides, it’s easy to hold on for a while, especially on arena. Snipe the siege and suddenly he has just a bunch of champions and no way to push you.
On RM it’s an issue because you play against knights the whole time, prep halbs for the pala timing and suddenly he comes with champions. As I said, it dies to CA and archers, but I wouldn’t mind to see the bonus against cavalry gone just to make it easier to stop by going full cav or, as I mentioned, sniping the siege.
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FR alone isn’t that strong. Easily stopped by defences.
But in combination with siege it can flood you base like a goth flood - and this as a cavalry civ when you try to make cav counters… which die like flies to the militia.
That’s what makes it so abnoxious.
You basically said how to counter it, preparing for it
However that doesn’t works 100% of the time and even flemish rev can be abused on tournaments (someone posted here that), 150 champion like units spawned from nothing, how you stop that if you don’t have good archer or gunpowder numbers??
As for removing bonus vs cav no, the whole bonus reflects the Battle of the Golden Spurs where the flemish militia stopped french knights.
I would remove the Sanctity/ Fervor bonus to Vils from Bohemians. I would give those to the Spanish, changing Supremacy as needed. Well, maybe just Sanctity.
Surprised we haven’t seen 100 Food Monks are OP threads.
Seeing LS’s be much better now, I would like to see buffs to several Castle Age Infantry UU (notably the AoK/ AoC ones).
+1 for normalizing Monk RNG
Def no, neither of the techs makes Bohemians OP
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No. They have Castle Age chemistry for the Crossbows. I think that this would be better: Base Hussite Wagon speed decreased from 0.85 to 0.77, giving Mangonels a better chance to land shots. After Wagenburg Tactics it now has a speed of 0.8855, letting archers effectively outrun it, because it currently outruns archers, making it super overpowered against archer civs.
Then it wouldn’t have a point. Maybe if it let Town Centers train Serjeants? And possibly decreased the train time at Castles and Donjons?
I quite like the current FR. I know it doesn’t really fit with the game, but I just find the idea of a revolution kind of cool, and the fact that the peasants suddenly revolt and start destroying stuff. I don’t totally hate this, I just think that balancing the tech is really hard.
I think maybe if builders got +1/+1 armor while building and repairing, that might be interesting.
No. Just no. They should not get BBC, both because realism and it would be really broken. I think that maybe if Wheelbarrow and Handcart were 50% cheaper and 50% faster to research that could be an option. Then also make it that they research free and instant the age after they unlock. Or possibly instead have handcart be free and instant as soon as wheelbarrow is researched, even in Feudal, but that might be a bit broken.
Sure, but keep Imp Skirm as well.
No. Imp Skirm should stay with Vietnamese.
My three possible suggestions:
- The Obuch now only removes either 1 melee armor or 1 pierce armor for each hit, instead of one of each. The armor it removes is either alternating, or determined by the highest armor value, where the Obuch reduces the higher value, or reduces melee in the case of a tie. Other than that, it remains the same.
- OR: Poles gain Halberdier, but their gold collection while mining stone decreases from a 1:2 ratio to a 1:3 ratio. This give Poles a better lategame counter to cavalry, but weakens their early game slightly.
- OR: Poles gain Paladin, but Szlachta Privileges has the gold cost increased from 300 to 400, and only gives a 40% discount on the Knight line, making it cost 45G instead of the current 30G. This makes Poles a better Paladin civ, as well as giving them a lategame powerhouse, but it weakens their mid game, by reducing the potency of their Knight spam.
Ok, I guess this could work. Can you give a bit more of an accurate measurement than a Wololo though?
What about the Viking Elite Cannon Galleon which they have now?
I think that they have that for balance, despite being broken on water. If it was removed, they wouldn’t really be able to take out shoreline defenses.
For the same reason Goths get HC and BBC and Spanish don’t get crossbows.
Just balance.
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Then your opponents probably didnt execute it well. Especially since you mentioned arena: You see people doing and succeeding with it on the highest level. Btw even on 16xx elo people are super inconsistent on this map (more so than on arabia). Some play really good, others seem to have no clue about how to play it.
Well what people oftentimes do is opening paladin which forces your opponent into halbs and then transition into flemish militia. It’s a super strong strat.
I like the idea of the Imperial skirm being a generic upgrade. Not sure if Poles should get it but I think Burmese should defenitely get it and maybe some other civs (Franks, Teutons, Slavs, Spanish, ?)
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I dont think Burmese needs to get it tbh but I really never liked that Imp Skirn was exclusive to Viets
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So why do people come up with the argument of history when I talk about giving BBC to Vikings? It is a balance suggestion post.
Moreover many people have a misconception that First Crusade provides conversion resistance to Knight line exclusively. That certainly is not true. It provides conversion resistance to every unit.
Because Vikings are perfectly balanced when it comes to tech tree due to their insane economy and if they need something it’s in fact nerfs, not buffs.
I honestly don’t understand how one could possibly come up with a suggestion that they should get BBC.
Please talk me through your thought process because I struggle to see any coherent link between their current state and lack of bombard cannons.
They don’t get BBC because they get siege rams to push quickly if needed after their faster imp with arbalest, they are supposed to use berserks to snipe siege, and be susceptible to SO because of their lack of long range counters to make up for their superb economy, land aggro potential, water capabilities, and defensive options due to insane eco that can carry you even if you fall behind.
It is by design that very few of the straight up archer civs get BBC- in fact, only ethiopians, viets and saracens get it, if I’m not mistaken. Others like malay, italians etc don’t count because their tech trees are very wide and don’t focus that much on archers and lack early game bonuses for them.
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The whole point of giving BBCs was because their economy needed nerf, which I have presented before inclusion of BBC.
Malay do not have a broad tech tree. Moreover, only few foot archer civs do not get BBC. The ones who don’t get are Vikings (eco), Mayans-Incas (design of no gunpowder, but EEW are 1.3 speed while Berserks are 1.05), Britons (they already have long range archers, comfortably atleast 10 range and later Yeomen), Japanese (Katapuruto), Chinese (to make them weak to SO, again economy).
The archer civs who get BBC are: Poles, Italians, Portuguese, Malay, Vietnamese, Malians(?), Ethiopians, Saracens, Turks(?), Bohemians, Byzantines.
Chinese have a wide tech tree to use in late game, unlike Vikings. So I ask Viking eco to be made weaker to make their siege stronger. Chinese have options of Monks (except against Siege), Cavalier, Heavy Camel, (missing Hussars is a bit off), Cavalry archers (perfectly serviceable). Vikings on the other hand have better Onagers and Infantry. Scorpions are a bit hit or miss since Vikings have extra range while Chinese have extra attack. Chinese also have a long term eco bonus in their team bonus.
Thats literally like having bracer but minus the range, and we all know the pain of having to engage arb with bracer with castle age knights… It’s a slaughter
The thing is Arbalester upgrade itself provides +1 attack too
Point is +1 attack for crossbows is much more potent then it sounds. It literally takes knights from 40 hits from xbows to 30. Arbs vs cavalier go from 35 hits to 28. Paladins go from 60 hits to 45.
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