Balance Change in August PUP #91736

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(Siege) Armored Elephant cost reduced from 130 food 95 gold -> 120 food 95 gold
Heavy Cavalry Archer base accuracy increased from 50% -> 80%
Siege Onager bonus attack vs Heavy Siege (Hussite Wagon, Ballista Elephants) reduced from 75 -> 50
Villagers gain +6 bonus attack vs Heavy Siege


(Elite) Hussite Wagon:
HP reduced from 200 (250) -> 180 (230)
Attack reduced from 17 (20) -> 11 (13)
Secondary projectile attack increased from 2 -> 4 (6), +3 vs buildings, +3 vs rams
Number of secondary projectiles increased from 3 ->5
Now fires all projectiles at the same time


Castle discount civilization bonus changed from 25% -> 15%/25% in Castle Age/Imperial Age


Centurion HP decreased from 120 -> 110


(Elite) Serjeant cost reduced from 60 food 35 gold â–¶->50 food 35 gold

The Frank nerf cometh!


Finally a Franks nerf! Faith in humanity restored. Not addressing “Elephant in the room : Persians” yet? I’m losing patience.

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Im gonna need some time to read all these! My god they’re going all out here!!!


The Steam link is broken.

Man, so Ballista Elephants are even worse now? What’s the point? (Yes, the Khmer are my favorite civ in the game.)

Hard to tell if this is a buff or nerf.

I guess this is to be expected, though I didn’t see anything super wrong with the Franks being top tier, especially with all the insane camel civs out there now.

This is a good nerf. The Centurion felt way too strong for really no reason.

Good buff! Serjeants are gonna be actually pretty viable now.

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The Franks nerf isn’t even adressing what makes them too good, Serjeant buff is also not enough (still bad attack btw). Hussite Wagon rework might be good enough.
At least Evilpanda will jump to the moon now 11


Good change for Serjeants, would still like to see 1 more atk on the Castle/ Imp versions.

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Hussite wagon got the organ gun treatment…i want each unit to be unique rather than same…hussite is ok now they beat korean war wagon easily because of high armour and attack…high attack is a feature for them but now is gone.

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Hast someone a working Link?

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It might confined to only 2 UU (Hussite Wagon, Ballista Elephant), but I don’t like idea of giving bonus damage to Villagers at all. The game should prioritize military other than villager to counter something. Villager too good in combat and countering led to the excessive prolonging of a particular game. Villagers also got a bonus damage against ram after researching Sapper, which I don’t like it.
Also +6 is too big for villager, Now they are even more vulnerable than Ram.

Castle discount was identity of Franks from Original AOE and I don’t think it need to be nerfed. Such a change make civ looks more bland. Franks aren’t consider OP in high level either.
If Franks need change, just take out Berry bonus entirely and compensate with Cavalry +25% HP as many other people suggested. If they don’t have Berry bonus, their castle age timing will slightly delayd and it affect their castle drop timing which is intend to nerf in the upcoming patch.

I don’t think Centurion is most OP thing on Romans. Just remove the bonus against infantry of Legionary and I think they are fine.
Or rather remove bloodline and adjust HP of Centurion. Then It can be strong Infantry/Scorpion civ.

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Castle age Centurions are OP, 140 HP, 15 attack, 4/5 armor (basically almost imperial age stats) so nerfing their HP was expected.
The +4 vs infantry isn’t really a problem and Romans are in a fine spot anyway.


But unique unit generally cannot be massed in Castle age. They have longer creation time than other heavy cavarly UU.
What I think Legionary +4 attack is busted is that they are too good against other infantry while produced in barrack. They even beat Elite Jaguar Warrior with the group battle in the Aurora effect of Centurion which is busted.


Franks get nerfed again but i dont think it will be enough to take down from top tier.


What on earth is this balance patch? Frank nerf isn’t even a good enough nerf. Yes, the castles are an issue. But as everyone keeps saying, the berry bonus is what needs to go.
The problem with romans is the scorpion discount, you can counter centurions with monks. Centurion health reduction is fine, but thats not the main issue.

This must be one of the few patches that are complete garbage. Make some meaningful changes please.


no dravidians buff. sad


Not sure what the HCA buff achieves. Seems like exclusively benefiting Khmer and Burmese.


Villagers gain +6 bonus attack vs Heavy Siege

Cute, but what exactly is the point of this? Who is sending like 2 ballista ele or Hussite wagon to raid? Or is this for supremacy villagers?


Maybe makes hard swapping into CA easier? Don’t need thumb ring quite as desperately so the initial swap cost is a bit lower.

Sending 1 hussite wagon into an eco could be hard to stop at low elos. Resistant to ranged, high damage, high HP.

Trouble was they overlapped too much with HC, except worse. Now they’re a dedicated archer hard counter, kinda like they were intended to be.

I’m sad they lost the mobile tower thing though. Will be interested to see how they play out.

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As usual the Frank pickers will cry and the Frank nerf will never see the light. Hope it actually does this time.

Other than that the only good change I see is for the Hussite wagons.

Centurion and siege onager changes might be a big thing for blackforest TG community, Serjeants are still going to be a meme, everyone gets the much cheaper thumb ring before the much expensive heavy CA.

Hope this meme patch doesn’t bring a fresh set of bugs, crashes.


You have to view the link while logged into Steam, so typically how you can do it is in your Steam app, navigate to AoE2’s page and then to Discussions. It opens Steam forums for AoE2, where you’ll find the PUP patch notes. @TimoderGroBe as well.

They literally got buffed here? Villagers will never counter Ballista Elephants, and SO will do less damage to them.

Anyway, bit of a whatever patch. I forgot Persians were in line for a rework until SMUM15236 mentioned it. 11