?Balance issues ?- let's talk

Hi, all ! I have been playing AoE2 since the year 2000. I love it and it is maybe my favourite game. I might not be rated 1900-2000 and I will never be, BUT I know the game after all those years. So, I wish to ask about some little things that I find " less balanced" than I’d like. :slight_smile:

I am sure many people will not agree with me, but I just wish to share some ideas.

  1. give the Aztec a GALLEON but remove Dry docks. I mean - yeah, they got OP infantry and a cool economy bonus BUT on islands they are so bad after age III .
  2. give the British bloodlines, plz - they have no hussar and no paladin anyway, so let them have a decent cavalier at least, I think that it will not be unfair, just look at the techtree of the Spanish, for example [they got like a thousand late game options]
  3. give the japanese bombard cannon - goths have it and they were barbarians who did not have gunpowder weapons when they destroyed Rome
  4. goths are too cool - remove bombard cannons plz
  5. Spanish are one of my favourite BUT the conquistador should cost 5more gold and the elite technology + 200g and should take 20% slower to research.
  6. the battle elephant now costs 120/70 food/gold, it is too strong and kills the Paladin in 1v1 so the elephant should cost 130/75 in my view, I know they are slow but still in late game people have food, so 120food is not so much
  7. Mangudais should cost +5 gold compared to the current cost, they are too great…
  8. Teutonic knights should be cheaper /by 10 gold/ and with +10 health for the Elite ones - almost nobody uses them in serious matches and they are just out of the game most of the time!
  9. Give the huns onagers but remove walls from their techtree
  10. give the malay blood lines , remove bombard tower< ? Or rework the whole civ, it seems very weird to me…
  11. The Caravel +1 dmg
  12. Nerf the Genoese crossbowman cause it is “TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE” or just make it much more expensive. This thing even has a bonus vs ships /not written in the tip/

Let’s talk about team bonuses

:slight_smile: Hi all ! I want to discuss what people think about team bonuses.

The Persian bonus would seem very bad , if you think logically /knights +2dmg vs. archer / KNIGHTS do kill archers anyway and even with no +2 it is easy if the number of knights corresponds to the amount of archer units.

The Byzantine team bonus seems insanely bad, as well, I guess it is due to their great civ. stats [we do not want them to be unfairly strong ]. Monks heal faster … This surely does not change anything. I would like to see another bonus in stead of the useless heal speed.

The viking bonus is the most "idiotic " one for me - i.e. docks cost -15% wood. Firstly, on dry land maps this is sh**, even on islands this sucks. Wood is easy to gather and you d o not need like 8-9-10 docks are the first 20 min. After that you got so much wood, it is just useless. Not to mention 15% is nothing, if it were at least 33%- I d be content

The bonus of the SPANISH is really OP for team games, it is one of the best - better trade. This helps a lot late game ! See how good it is - compared to the viking bonus.

The berbers have a pretty cool /even too good to be true / bonus. It somehow makes sense. The Genitour is cheap and nice in different situations , even as a meat shield.

I hate the Saracens’ bonus , for obvious reasons… You ?

The Indians bonus seems also too useless. WHO attacks castles and towers with camels ?? Nobody in fact. So the camel bonus vs buildings is sh** - only the mamelukes might become super cool with this - as they have the so great ranged hack attack , but even with no +5 the mamelukes in huge groups still KILL TCs and arrow towers.

The INCA bonus is so sh**ty that I feel like crying …

WHAT DO YOU THINK about the team bonus problem > ?

I think the team bonuses are too generic, and should be more unique for each cilization. +1 atack for something, -10% cost for something… C’mon, you should be like “Oh, I’m glad this civilization is my ally!”.
The italians, berbers and vietnamese have the coolest bonuses in my opiniom, as the unique unit really can appear leading the front in games - something I consider better than the “mangonel minimun range reduced”. Why not put more team techs instead of straight bonuses - Like the berber techbology “Kasbah”? A lot of flavor can be added to the game like that.
But that’s never gonna change, and perhaps it’s better like that - too many sugar can give you health problems. A old school vs new features war could start - a lot of these happen daily in this forum.
I wonder what are the bonuses for the new civs - I might aswell share those sweet leaks when i put my hands on then.

My opinion.

  1. I don’t think it’s necessary. Each civilization has its pros and cons
  2. I don’t think it’s necessary. They have very good archers.
  3. Agree. I think if they need a unit to lower enemies from a distance, their horses are bad (they could add Plate Barding Armor).
  4. I don’t think it’s necessary.
  5. Agree. The conquerors are a very strong unit. They cost 60F 70G, 16 attack, + 2 / + 2 armor, range 6 and 65% accuracy. In comparison to the Arambai it costs 80W 60G, 17 attack, but 0 / + 2 armor, range 5 and 20% accuracy.
  6. I don’t think it’s necessary. The elephants of war are very very slow and with a monk you can convert to 2 without touching you.
  7. I don’t think it’s necessary. They look like the Camel Archer. They have several weaknesses.
  8. Agree. They are very very slow, they do not reach a villager. The patchfinding of the game is very bad. Before putting more anti-projectile armor or more HP, I think it is best to make the infantry cheaper in the game, so as not to lose the essence of the unit.
  9. Agree. The Huns need a small balance.
  10. Agree.
  11. I don’t think it’s necessary. They have enough HP.
  12. I don’t think it’s necessary. Your upgrade cost is expensive.
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It’s possible some of this is being addressed in Age of Empires 2 Definitive Edition

  1. Indians lacking Battle Elephant. But in reality they were well known for Battle Elephant. So does is Persian. Give Indians and Persians Battle Elephant.
  2. Nerf Imperial Camel. 7 to 9 Attack jump is too much. On top of that faster firing rate and extra HP and more speed boost. They often proves a bit too op. Giving them +1 melee and -1 dam would be ok for them. They got some extra bonus damage anyway.
  3. Take away Halbs from Indians. In general better Camel civs doesn’t get Halbs. Indians are a civ better off not having Halbs. They can get Battle Elephants and not having Halberdiers.
  4. Give Italians Halberdier. Halberdiers were everywhere in 15th century. It’s ironic that they are lacking Halberdiers. Giving them Halberdiers won’t make much difference except making them a bit better at Trash War which they suck a bit now.
  5. Give Saracens Cavalier. It’s also Ironic that they are lacking Cavalier. It still wouldn’t hurt much having access Cavalier. It’ll make people to go for mass Knights which a lot of player hesitates now.
  6. Give Saracens 25/50/75/100% cheap house. In history Saracens were more of a Cavalry heavy Nomadic diversive civilization.This bonus will make them more historically accurate and a huge buff to their early eco bonus which they suffers now.
  7. Nerf Mangudai a bit by nerfing their attack rate tiny bit. Mangudai’s frame animation fires before reloading. If animation gets accurate then it’ll be fairly balanced hopefully.
  8. Give Vietnamese Franks free farm upgrade bonus and take that bonus away from Franks instead. It’ll make Vietnamese slightly better.
  9. Change or buff Paper money tech. Paper money is no doubt the worst tech in the game. Make it more cheap or give a bonus that makes Trade Units goldless at cheap price.
  10. Change Chatra. Instead of 50 HP their Eles will get Berbers Camel like HP regeneration bonus. It’ll make them bit ok but fine having this tech.
  11. Nerf Bombard Tower. Bombard Towers can get bit less HP and -1 or -2 range. It’ll make Watch Tower a bit more viable instead of Bombard Tower spam.
  12. Make Genitour a bit more viable. Improve bonus damage which Genitour lacks a lot and make it more counter-able by Light Cavs.
  13. Buff Hussar line a bit. Especially their upgrades. Their upgrades is the most expensive in the game and they offers sooo much little. Give extra bonus dam vs Cav Archer/Genitour?
  14. Increase the price of Crossbowman upgrade. Their upgrade is too cheap. Keep it somewhere around Long Swordsman upgrade.

War Elephant: Am I a joke to you?

Let’s put the historical accuracy aside. AOE2 was never supposed to be 100% accurate.

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It needs Castles to mass War Elephant. But ok not having it but wouldn’t hurt. Take Khmer for example. They got Battle and Ballista Eles. It would make their Death Match and Random map games more Ele based. Their military choice hurts real time.

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Not when you mass halbs.

Civs can be balanced more way to get close to accurate. History can never be 100% accurate.

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I honestly think that the civs are already mostly fine. They need no rebalance.

Saracens, Vietnamese, Khmer, Italians considered worst of the game. If civs winrates are between then it can be said they are balanced. Those civs are more bad than that. Some of the unit lines like Siege Tower, Swordsman are like never used. It can’t be said balanced anymore.

Champions are underrated though. They are really good.

I’m fine with Saracens, at least their market is very good. But I do agree about the rest. As I said, most of the civs are balanced, not all of them.

Saracens are worst civ when new HD civs wasn’t a thing back them. What can you do with Saracens market other then weakening your eco? That bonus gets nullified after somepoint either way.

They aren’t worst civ though. But I dig your dislike for them and I respect it.

They are now one of the worst(was worst in AOC days) for RM games now but they can handle DM games fair enough. You can say top tier DM civs ironically.

The Hussar should have a cheaper update for only + 15HP. The cost of updating the Crossbowman and Skirmisher should go up.

I would not categorize civs in AOE2 as good and bad. They can be improved but this is not AOE3.

I use swordsmen and many people do, streamers talk about this sometimes - one video pointed out that new players forget to use champions and this is a mistake, they got many different uses.

And about Saracens - the idea to give them 50percent cheaper houses is nice, they would get a let’s say small early game eco bonus. But you cant say that they MUST have cavalier - this is the huge idea in fact - NOT having cavalier but making mamelukes and many other units, they got cool cav archers, arbalests, gunpowder weapons and siege onager and fully upgr. champions , too. It is just that the SARACENS are lategame just like the Spanish so yeah -in stupid boring games with Feudal age rushes on size 2 in 1v1 they are a little behind. They do not have anything in age II in fact,so yeah, people might not like them.

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