Honestly, I think the only buff they could go for is access to the Arbalester. I would appreciate seeing a another European civ with the Arbalester and I also seeing a civ from The Last Khans civ set having Arbalester.
2 Likes
They just got buffed and donât need another one at this time.
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They have the very cost efficient Leitis, super Skirmishers (8 Pierce Armour), decent Halberdiers (only missing 1 Melee Armour from FU value), FU Hussar, BBC and Paladin.
Lithuanians need nothing else in terms of units. They even start the game at a huge resource advantage (+150 Food, which is 3 free Villagers).
3 Likes
That 150 food is huge when it comes to empire wars. Big enough boost that Lithuanians might become an auto ban on that playstyle like chinese
1 Like
Now they could always still get their Ring Archer Armor and Thumb Ring removed for the sake of balance after they have been given Arbalesters.
Why? Their whole tehme is Super Trash + Paladin/Leitis Cavalry.
Why would you weaken their Skirmishers?
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So youd make them worse then they already are. Id rather have xbows with full upgrades over arbs without armor and thumb ring. Not to mention you now nerf their trash.
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And xbows with full upgrades are better then arbs without thumb ring.
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Ok fine. Letâs NOT remove the thumb ring and ring archer armor. Iâm against that idea now. You guys destroyed me in this discussion. So I give up now.
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It wasnât about destroying you. I honestly like discussion, I want you to see things from different angles.
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Yeah youâre right. What I did meant by me getting âdestroyedâ was me losing the debate over what certain things should happen but you guys didnât actually destroy me. You guys just wanted me to see things from a different angle. Thatâs all.
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Chinese just got changed so they donât get the extra vills, same for mayans and incan lama.
Leitis stat video fro SotL.
Leitis overshadows Paladin by a wide margin, specially against Cavalry counters like Halbs or Camels.
Makes a good case for removing paladin from Lithuanians, if you ask me.
They are even easier to mass than Paladins, from fewer structures.
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One castle can outproduce one stable in this case but it certainly canât outproduce 2 stables. And the better performance vs ranged gives palas a role the Leitis canât fulfill, while still being more pop efficient when it matters (dunno why he cared at all about cost efficiency in a late-game TG situation)
5 Likes
You can get 5 Leitis by the time a Stables can produce 3 Paladins. 2 Castles will likely get you all the Leitis you will ever need.
Couple them with extra fast Hablerdiers and extra fast Elite Skirmishers with 8 PA, and you need no other ground force.
Elite Skirmishers with 8 PA and 10% faster movement, will take care of the Ranged units. No need for expensive Paladins.
I said it on day 1. The Leitis are too cheap and easy to mass right now and their attack is too high especially with even 2 relics. They donât have even have any cost efficient counters. The same applies to their Paladins with relics.
The Cataphract has a super high upgrade cost and is strong vs infantry, but is weak vs defenses, archers and bulky units. The Cataphracts have no blast furnace or bloodlines. The Leitis has a much cheaper Elite upgrade and is cost efficient against counters like halbs, scouts and camels when they have even 1 relic.
Basically, in the same way Cataphracts have low pierce armor and they not good vs buildings and defenses and have to be supported by FU cheaper Skirmishers; the Lithuanian cavalry needs to have low pierce armor and be supported by high pierce armor Skirmishers.
So to fix the issue the Lithuanians need to:
- Lose Plate Barding Armor OR bloodlines
- Leitis +10g cost
- Leitis Elite Upgrade cost increases to 1500f and 800g.
- Relic bonus affects all cavarly again
Or something similar. Their cavarly needs an obvious weakness asap.
1 Like
No, they are perfect. leitis is hard-countered by Archers. It is better to have a cavalry civ like this, then having them spam Paladins just like Franks, Spanish or Huns.
1- No reason to do that.
2- No reason to do this either.
3- Lithuanians are exactly at a point where a lot of the community wants most civs to be: heavily depndant on the UU.
4- This would be broken.
To balance Lithuanians, just remove Paladin from them, so they are forced into Super Skirmishers, rather then have 2 complementary Cavalry units (Leitis dominates Melee and Paladin against Archers).
Just remove Paladin, like I suggest for Byzantines.
Leitis have higher base attack than Cataphracts, lower gold cost by 25g, lower elite upgrade cost, and +1 pierce armor.
They need to be nerfed.
And once more, suggestions 1-4 together. Not separately.
2 Likes
Heavily disagree, rather I would remove Paladin from both, and buff Cataphract with a large upgrade cost reduction.
I would be fine if Byzantines lose the Paladin and gain Blast furnace or bloodlines even if no change is made to the Cataphract upgrade cost because either tech affects the Cataphracts and one of their cheaper units. But I donât think Byzantines will be changed at all in the future.
If Lithuanians lose Paladins, then their relic bonus is just a worse version of the Malian UT Farimba assuming that the average Lithuanian player even gets at least 3 relics. Additionally, the Leitis would not be as weak to archers as a cataphract.