(Balance Suggestion) Give Goths Thumb Ring and Parthian Tactics

Goths are a controversial civ. Their whole gameplan is to spam infantry. Like Franks and Britons they are very onedimensional but their problem is that infantry isn’t as viable as cavalry or archers. You can’t just buff them to be better though, because the counters to infantry aren’t as good as the counters to archers and Cavalry, also infantry often only gets good if spammed which doesn’t provide the best gameplay. They now get buffs with every patch and are at least mid-tier now but like Viper says, they really need something else other than infantry to provide good gameplay.

They could either get good Knights, Archers, Cav Archers or Siege. Siege + Infantry is a Celt thing, Archers + Knights is also something other civs already do, the same is true for melee Cav and Infantry so that leaves us with Cav Archer + Infantry as the only unique combination left (You could also make their light cav exceptional but I don’t know about that… Infantry + Monks is an Aztec thing). They would need Thumb Ring and Parthian Tactics to get all their upgrades.

Cav Archers + Huskarls sound like an interesting army composition. This would help them in their mid to lategame the most, the Goths player would then no longer be forced into Huskarls/longsword spam at that point. Just the option of going into Cav Archers could really help.

There is no need to give Goths good Cav Archers, and as far as Knights go, just giving them Plate Barding would be enough.

According to their winrate, however, neither are needed.

This is not a suggestion purely for balance, did you read my post? Even if they are ok now (they have some success on the ladder but let’s see if they get picked in tournaments) they don’t provide good gameplay because of their onedimensionality and the nature of infantry in this game. Giving them Plate Boarding would make them just another Infantry + Cavalry civ. The only other Infantry civ with fu Cav Archer are Japanese but they usually go Arbs and have other strengths. This was an idea to make the Goths more unique and fun while being viable.

Problem is, you would have to brutally nerf their Infantry spam potential, which is much more unique than an Infantry + Cav Archer civ would ever be, since Infantry is the most underused unit type as it is, while Cav Archers are a go-to unit for too many civs already (Indians, Saracens, Tatars, Mongols, Turks, Cumans, Magyars, Japanese, Huns…).

On a side note, Infantry + Cav Archers is a Japanese and Bulgarians theme.

Do you really have to though? Cav Archer are a kinda situational unit, for none of the Civs who only get fu Cav Archer without any further boni they are the go-to unit (Mongols and Cumans go for them even less but okay, they both get a Cav Archer UU). Bulgarians don’t get fu Cav Archer and their Melee Cav is exceptional so they aren’t really infantry + cav. Japanese usually rather go for Arbs, they also have a tower and naval theme and their infantry plays differently from Goth Infantry but I agree that both Civs would have some similarities then.

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Cav Archers are one of the strongest units in the game, for hit-and-run snipes of stuff that actually counters Infantry, like HCs, Onagers and Scorpions. The Synergy with Huskarls is just too great, I am afraid.

Indians and Saracens always go for them, and they are just FU without any benefits. Japanese go Mass Cav Archers often too, in Land maps.

Not the go to unit but they are entirely viable. As to whether people who play Goths would like that I have no idea. Historically I don’t feel like it makes too much sense, as ranged cav was way less preponderant than heavy cav among the Goths but we have seen worse already so it wouldn’t be the end of the world.

They do use them as the lack of arbs forces them to do so when they need archers.

Indian will do so because for them xbows are a dead end, and Saracen do have the anti-building bonus for them.


As a Goths player, though I would like it to be the strongest civ, I do not think any buffs to them are justifiable at this point.
If the devs ever fix the pathfinding, I actually suspect that Goths, Franks, Aztecs and other Melee-heavy civs will need nerfs.

Huskarls already have bonus against HC and HC are kind of an underwhelming counter to infantry anyway. You can’t counter Siege with Cav Archers lol. They have a high Frame Delay. Unlike Mangudai they aren’t good if you immediately need to run away with them. But I agree they synergize with Huskarls!
The go-to Unit for Indians are camels and for Saracens Arbs. Cav Archer are important for these civs, yes, but they are not a key part of their army composition.

@CactusSteak2171 I know it doesn’t make sense historically. Bulgarians will sometimes go for them but it’s not good.

Japanese? I have played them wrong for 20 years 11
Typically I play Japanese CAs for pop efficiency, but up to mid imp I go standard archers…

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Cav Archers are better support for the Infantry.