Balance suggestion on War Wagon

WW is one of the best UU in the game, they are really deadly when get mass especially in maps like Arena, and with their 150hp (200Elite) and free armor upgrades it’s very hard to kill them, but i really started to think that “WW” need some balance somehow, my suggestion is not a nerf or buff only, it is a whole balance change, so here is my suggestions:

1-Reduce their attack vs buildings from 5 to 4/3.
2-decrease the attack delay from 1 to 0.9 like CA.
3-decrease the rate of fire from 2.5 to 2 like CA.
4-decrease the frame delay.
5-decrease the hp by 20, so it will become (130/180elite).
6-increase their speed from 1.2 to 1.4 (like CA).

So what do you think?

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Castle Age War Wagons are too strong, but Elite WW is balanced.

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Yes, but the balance will be on general, still elite WW has it’s strong point

Elite War Wagons die to Skirmishers/Halbediers/Siege Rams/Siege Onager so hard, while Non-Elite version don’t, hence only the Castle Age version needs adjustment.

So what do you think? Keep the hp as it is?

Keep Elite War Wagon’s stats as it is, but Castle Age War Wagons need nerf, I don’t know how they should do it though

If you got a reduction on the frame delay and rate of fire and attack dealy and speed increased, this will be much better that it’s current stats vs halbs and skirms, because they will fire faster and run faster and micro easier than the current one, so the reduction of their hp make sense.

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It is definitely a buff not a nerf…

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Yes i agree in general, but this will all depend on how much we should decrease/increase frame delay, attack delay and ROF, so you still have a big area to play with numbers.

war wagon is no cav archer, they play different and I like how they are right now. Completely against that changes.
Besides that war wagons are really good, they actually were even before DE, besides much more situational back then.

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I tend to think they’re just fine. Of course, if you catch me after losing to them I might say something different, but I’m also more rational now.

I wouldnt touch war wagons before buffing koreans again.

War wagons are tanky at range but clunky and they melt in melee. If you make them more micro-friendly, even with less HP, they could became a nightmare to fight against

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Leave them alone. They cost a ton to make. That’s a nerf in itself.

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Perhaps a small nerf to their attack vs Buildings
But the rest of the unit is fine

Quite likely this is an “anti-post”.
Buffing WW instead as high hp CA, even still keep building bonus.WW is already a terrific unit in Arena and BF, so they are even a superb arabia unit for your change .9 attack 180hp massive armor, fast CA, i guess i could prefer them over mangudai

I mean the OP likes to bring and make noise of “balance problems” that don’t exist.

War Wagons were really broken at the release of The Conquerors.

2 Likes

Agree with others in the thread. Making War Wagon more Cavalry Archer like would defeat the purpose/point of the unit. Unit seems fine to me as it is. Are they damn strong? Hell yeah. But they are also very expensive to mass, so if you face Koreans, you know you need to make a move early.

Are they still that difficult to mass? Just 152 resource/unit (arambai 135, conqs 130 but i would convert it to 155 assuming food : wood = 1:1.4). WW dont need defence upgrade while arambai and conqs dont need attack. Not big difference IMO, while WW is much more tanky

could be wrong here, but i think the main issue is that korea is potentially crazy good v archer civs, but lack lustre v cav civs… if anything the above changes will make the WW more viable where they are weaker, but not necessarily make them weaker where they are oppressive… so isnt good

i think they’re comparable but still quite different… someone probably needs to add up the costs involved, but arambai can only get +1 armour, BL and husbandry so are cheaper to tech into, along with a better eco

conqs need both armour, BL, husbandry and have a worse eco

koreans needs the more expensive attack upgrades, are more reliant on the getting ballistics, likely need TR as well. all in all being more expensive, with minimal eco advantage except to get the castle sooner? all for a more expensive, more unwieldy unit…

like i understand it is better in TGs where you can afford it/cater for it’s short comings but 1v1? im afraid if we nerf em we’ll end up with the non-khmer elephant situation where it just becomes useless in 1v1, making koreans worse in the ladder

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I fell like that the increase of RoF and speed isn’t balanced out by the other nerfs, and outclassed them by far.

Koreans if anything else needs some help to use more of its tech tree…

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