I meant that archers with +2 attack would be better than archers from 2 players with +1 attack only if the plan is to try and kill all buildings in feudal. Britons and Mayan sure have good bonuses to bring to the team but they aren’t strong enough if you try to level a whole base.
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Castle age? Where basically the best the team would pull off would be Saracen knigths who are obsolete as soon as you hit Imp.
I’ve seen quite a few times arbalests with ballistics being in their maximum range and missing shots because the monk was microed, also did it myself. BUT OK MAN.
You won’t have monks alone on the map in post imp. You will most likely have counter units to those scouts or eagles that will fight them while their are hitting your monks, and a lot of the aztec monks will most likely survive because of the 65 hp or whatevery they have + being healed by the monks around them. In DE, monk micro can be done so well with shift click that in Voobly you’d be banned for cheating if you had a macro that did somthing similar
stop replying to me by saying “somethings is definitely not…” just because you can’t do it or haven’t seen anyone doing it doesn’t mean it’s not possible.
M@a are easily countered by a good scouting, walls, scouts, scouts with skirms, scouts + vils, especially by archers. Once you have 2 archers on the field against M@a and your micro is decent, the m@a can never engage and have to run.
Scouts are already too good against spears. I bet you can’t easily find and show me a high level game where a player went for scouts and the opponent went for M@a into something without walling and won. If you do, please link me, honestly.
Other civs are good on these closed maps. And Slavs/Aztecs are good too on these maps, and also get a farming bonus.
Well, what does having, say, 6000 food instead of 4000 will change in the late game? You could argue that Teutons have an OP wood bonus because they will end up with much more wood than a generic civ. The farm drop thingy works too, especially given you will need 4 villies on each deer, and only 1 can use the farm…
This, plus free chemistry. Their gold bonus has already been buffed in the past, if you increase it even more their FI will be faster since you will need less villies on gold, and thus you will have a better food income.
It’s not because a strat has counterplay that you must overbuff it.
If you’re aztec and have relics then you’re not going to try and kill champs with skirms. It’s almost as if they were the civ with an UU that kills infantry.
Caravels only work when massed, you can’t rush with them.
So you would do that just to adress the rare situation where you let a meso player amass eagles , which take a whole minute a piece to be created in feudal btw. If you let them unchecked like squires won’t be quite enouh to save you.
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Camels and Eagle Warriors beat Knights. Specially Eagles, which can be massed in Feudal, when Gold is much less of an issue than Food.
There have been quite some discussion on the matter (Leitis too limited useful compared to Knight line? - #16 by CactusSteak2171) and the Leitis’ upside aren’t quite enough to let it shine. Especially knowign that besides training time and armor it has the same stats as the Boyar, an unit that isn’t popular even tho it’s strictly better than Cavalier too.
Wat? I though you were going for an OP archer masterpiece? Why are you making camels and eagles all of the sudden?
You can still have Camels and Eagles, with those Archers, if Castle Age Knights became a problem, which will be easy because you will hit Castle Age earlier than your opponents, because Archers are great at puting pressure and cost no Food.
Well, they can beat knights. But they can’t beat swordsmen. Camels are bad against archers. Eagle scouts are slow to produce and need to be upgraded before being effective. I’m no trying to say they are worthless, but rather that if knights are so popular, it’s for a good reason. In Post-imp Saracen and Mayan are super good, Britons can if your enemies can’t deal with mass longbow, but in the end this team 's strong points aren’t so much in the “siege archer” gimmick.
This is circular logic now. Archer beat Infantry, Eagles and Camels beat Knights and Siege.
That combination is still OP, since, when massed, Archers do beat Knights easily.
Not to mention that Archer civs get to Castle Age easier, due to Archers costing no Food.
The Siege-Archer “gimmick” is exactly what carries that Team in Feudal, and Viper has proven that it is broken OP.
Eagles don’t beat knights, they lose quite badly and it’s not even cost efficient. Their bonus damage is negligible (3). Also you’re overestimating the archers, you’re assuming your opponent is going to be a sitting duck while you snowball archers, skirms counter feudal archers pretty badly, its not even funny
But then why do we see Paladins and Siege onagers civs in tournament team games? Why do they last up to Post-Imp and are rarely finished in Feudal/Castle?
to be fair this is a problem for all melee UUs save for a few exceptions like woads, Konniks, Huskarls, Magyar Huszars and a few others. Investing into castles and producing more expensive units is usually not worth it. I think are Leitis are super good but its hard to give up knights and forward stable production
They did tweak the Keshik so it wouldn’t suffer from that anymore. Maybe it will happen to Leitis too?
The Keshik is a secret powerhouse now. Fast creation speed, cheap and only slightly less strong than a knight. The high pierce armor makes them excellent raiding units.
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so in situations where they are outnumbered they lose, wow color me surprised.
Once you have 2 archers on the field against M@a and your micro is decent, the m@a can never engage and have to run
and you want to fix the one counter?
Seems something is off btw, here it says that the tooltip is incorrect and the true bonus is +2.
I also had to go and test it out and that’s actually how it is, on dark age (meaning only the team bonus is working cause the civ bonus starts at feudal age), archers and arbalesters both do 2 damage to buildings, except outposts and farms which take their normal damage +2. (since buildings have more armor than those have attack, they normally do only 1 damage, cause 1 is the least damage that a unit can do, so until you have actually gone past the building pierce armor, you can only do “+1” damage to buildings, but after you have enough blacksmith techs and chemistry you could actually see it when I compared with british and saracens FU arbs, that saracen ones made +5 to buildings, even though they should be doing only +4.
Oh, what a productive day this is.
But back to the matter at hand, indeed just going full saracen would be better for a feudal age base destruction. On the longer run of course, the more diversive the team the better the game for them.
Wait, shift click allows to queue conversions? The heck. 
It actually does not.