# Balance suggestions for the spanish **URL:** \ **Category:** II - Discussion\ **Created:** [May 16, 2021, 8:29pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/balance-suggestions-for-the-spanish/130798 "2021-05-16T20:29:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![CactusSteak2171](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/cactussteak2171/32/29684_2.png) [@CactusSteak2171](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/CactusSteak2171)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2021, 1:01pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/balance-suggestions-for-the-spanish/130798/21 "2021-05-17T13:01:19Z")
The +1 pierce armour buff you proposed would still be way too over the top anyway, and you seem to severely underestimate conqs. And while it’s true the unit falls of in imp, it’s perfectly fine since it’s so strong in castle age, just like arambai and kipchaks. Regarding the “optional” suggestions: - you don’t need to nerf their cav archers for no reason other civs are in a similar situation and it’s not a problem at all. - the gunpowder bonus already affects BBC - removing the blacksmith bonus would be lame af. It’s a legitimate gold bonus that is different from other the Port and Turk bonuses, so it has its role in the game, while replacing it with a food discount bonus on eco techs will just make people feel like they are playing a worse Burgundian. ---
**Author:** ![casusincorrabil](https://forums.ageofempires.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@casusincorrabil](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/casusincorrabil)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2021, 1:29pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/balance-suggestions-for-the-spanish/130798/22 "2021-05-17T13:29:12Z")
I don’t think spanish are that bad. They have some strong maps, too. Maybe you can make the building bonus 40 %, this would help them in more open maps (faster walls/castles/towers…). But there is always the risk of overbuffing them in closed maps if the adjustment isn’t well targeted. ---
**Author:** ![WedInk504838973](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/wedink504838973/32/97010_2.png) [@WedInk504838973](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/WedInk504838973)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2021, 4:53pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/balance-suggestions-for-the-spanish/130798/23 "2021-05-17T16:53:20Z")
¨just like the arambai and kipchaks¨ dude those units are op in imperial age XD ---
**Author:** ![WedInk504838973](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/wedink504838973/32/97010_2.png) [@WedInk504838973](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/WedInk504838973)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2021, 4:56pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/balance-suggestions-for-the-spanish/130798/24 "2021-05-17T16:56:27Z")
> [@CactusSteak2171](#): > > the gunpowder bonus already affects BBC but not cannon galleons ---
**Author:** ![WedInk504838973](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/wedink504838973/32/97010_2.png) [@WedInk504838973](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/WedInk504838973)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2021, 5:01pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/balance-suggestions-for-the-spanish/130798/25 "2021-05-17T17:01:29Z")
> [@CactusSteak2171](#): > > you don’t need to nerf their cav archers for no reason other civs are in a similar situation and it’s not a problem at all. They arent in a similar situation because spanish get conq so its stupid to give them CA without parthian tactics. Mongols (which probably u think they are in the same situation) have a decent civ bonus and dont miss parthian tactics, same happens with cumans and huns. ---
**Author:** ![WedInk504838973](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/wedink504838973/32/97010_2.png) [@WedInk504838973](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/WedInk504838973)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2021, 5:11pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/balance-suggestions-for-the-spanish/130798/26 "2021-05-17T17:11:03Z")
> [@CactusSteak2171](#): > > make people feel like they are playing a worse Burgundian. Burgundians are OP of course playing other civs feel weaker lol ---
**Author:** ![FurtherLime7936](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/furtherlime7936/32/113417_2.png) [@FurtherLime7936](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/FurtherLime7936)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2021, 5:14pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/balance-suggestions-for-the-spanish/130798/29 "2021-05-17T17:14:44Z")
> [@WedInk504838973](#): > > kipchaks¨ Omega lol 1111111 Kipchaks literally fall in Imperial age. ---
**Author:** ![WedInk504838973](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/wedink504838973/32/97010_2.png) [@WedInk504838973](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/WedInk504838973)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2021, 5:20pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/balance-suggestions-for-the-spanish/130798/32 "2021-05-17T17:20:25Z")
> [@FurtherLime7936](#): > > Omega lol 1111111 > Kipchaks literally fall in Imperial age. They fall so hard that they were nerfed in the last patch Lmao. ---
**Author:** ![Gaturro7777](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/gaturro7777/32/61694_2.png) [@Gaturro7777](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/Gaturro7777)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2021, 5:24pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/balance-suggestions-for-the-spanish/130798/33 "2021-05-17T17:24:50Z")
To be fair spanish are not a Bad civ, they are below average but are not Bad. I would like them to be a little better, but it should be a minor change ---
**Author:** ![AttilaTheHUN270](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/attilathehun270/32/109949_2.png) [@AttilaTheHUN270](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/AttilaTheHUN270)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2021, 5:38pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/balance-suggestions-for-the-spanish/130798/34 "2021-05-17T17:38:20Z")
> [@WedInk504838973](#): > > Also Turks got a big buff recently if it is a big buff (where i agree it was neccesary and big buff) then ur proposal to Spanish Buff series is more then HUGE buff…İts Buffing Overhaul . İts like skyrim mods xD whats next dude ? -Elitie Congs have %50 move speed ? -Elitie Congs now have +48 base attack and ignore armors ? -Conqs are available at TC feudal age ? -Congs have 12 range ? Maybe Elite ones have 20 range so they can defend their castle ? ---
**Author:** ![WedInk504838973](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/wedink504838973/32/97010_2.png) [@WedInk504838973](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/WedInk504838973)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2021, 7:05pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/balance-suggestions-for-the-spanish/130798/35 "2021-05-17T19:05:28Z")
Thank you for your opinion, I will continue to improve my proposal for the next time. ---
**Author:** ![VinylicBloom38](https://forums.ageofempires.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/v/a8b319/32.png) [@VinylicBloom38](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/VinylicBloom38)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2021, 5:33am UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/balance-suggestions-for-the-spanish/130798/36 "2021-05-18T05:33:48Z")
> -All economic upgrades have a 50% food discount. isn’t this the burgundian eco bonus that made them busted? a good change to them could be removing their last archer armor upgrade and the fire rate, and giving them a tech that changes the gold cost from hand cannons to wood, or maybe refund the gold cost when they die, make the civ more gunpowder oriented! ---
**Author:** ![SMUM15236](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/smum15236/32/29763_2.png) [@SMUM15236](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/SMUM15236)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2021, 7:00am UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/balance-suggestions-for-the-spanish/130798/37 "2021-05-18T07:00:05Z")
My proposal is changing “Blacksmith techs does not cost gold” to “All techs (except Monastery) and unit upgrades cost 30% less gold” - kinda opposite of Portuguese. Blacksmith techs does not cost gold is definitely a good bonus but doesn’t help Spanish in early game as you will save only 50 gold from Fletching, perhaps the least likely civ to research that in feudal. With this bonus they can save more gold in early game. ---
**Author:** ![CactusSteak2171](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/cactussteak2171/32/29684_2.png) [@CactusSteak2171](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/CactusSteak2171)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2021, 10:28am UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/balance-suggestions-for-the-spanish/130798/38 "2021-05-18T10:28:01Z")
> [@WedInk504838973](#): > > ¨just like the arambai and kipchaks¨ dude those units are op in imperial age XD Hmmm no? They are weaker than their castle age version when compared to what else you and the enemy can field in imp. (ie. other units benefit from their upgrades more than kipchaks and arambai do) > [@WedInk504838973](#): > > but not cannon galleons I did misread. But Spanish CG do fire faster already on top of the ballisitics. > [@WedInk504838973](#): > > They arent in a similar situation because spanish get conq so its stupid to give them CA without parthian tactics Not everything has to be used in the tech tree else half the civs would have lost the HCA upgrade too long ago, and I didn’t even think about the Mongols but more about the Berbers which are a better example, and Chinese/Vietnamese can be mentioned too since their arbs and UU cost the same res as HCA do. > [@WedInk504838973](#): > > Burgundians are OP of course playing other civs feel weaker lol Regardless of whether Burgundians are OP a small food discount on Spanish eco upgrades would be doomed to be worse than the Burgundian bonus. Now once it’s nerfed you could say there is room for the Spanish to have a big food discount, but I suspect people wouldn’t be happy to see that resurface 11 > [@WedInk504838973](#): > > They fall so hard that they were nerfed in the last patch Lmao. The frame delay nerf affect both the castle age and elite version so it’s not really aimed at the elite version. Anyway it was likely on principle, some dude at FE must have remembered that they didn’t even let mamelukes have 0 frame delay, so they added a frame delay to the kipchak because they don’t want ranged units that are both fast and have no frame delay. ---
**Author:** ![AbuzzJam4677680](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/abuzzjam4677680/32/55419_2.png) [@AbuzzJam4677680](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/AbuzzJam4677680)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2021, 11:54am UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/balance-suggestions-for-the-spanish/130798/39 "2021-05-18T11:54:59Z")
> [@WedInk504838973](#): > > Spanish- I think this civilization is one of the worst in 1 vs 1 arabia due to the lack of an economic bonus and its difficulty to face some matchups. (especially against archer civs). Spanish is not weak at all. But it suffers indirect nerf consecutively due to quick walling and tower rush nerf, on which are the strategies they often rely. I agree to buff their building speed of wall (wall only). It’s ok to have a few civs to play quick walling. > [@WedInk504838973](#): > > -Unique unit: conquistador: accurancy improved from 60% - 70%(elite) to 70% - 80%(elite) and rate of fire from 2.9 to 2.9 - 2.5(elite). training time reduced from 24s to 20s(elite). Conquistador does not need a huge buff. They falls off in imperial age. Just increase the attack of the elite Conq by 1 atk is enough. > [@WedInk504838973](#): > > OPTIONAL (-Builders work 25% faster dark age, 30% faster feudal age, 35% faster castle age. It was 30% in all ages. Just to match with the sicilians 100% building speed for tcs and castles but nerfing a bit the early game. (you will see why)) Their early game does not need a nerf. > [@WedInk504838973](#): > > OPTIONAL (-Heavy Cav archer upgrade and thumbring removed. (The heavy cav archer and thumbring upgrades make no sense because spanish dont have access to parthian tactics and the conquistador is a stronger version of the CA).) I am fine with this. Spanish almost rely on Conq for ranged support. > [@WedInk504838973](#): > > OPTIONAL (-Handcannoneers, bombard cannons and cannon galleons fire 25% faster (was 18% and only hand cannons and bombard cannons).) gunpowder units has high base attack. A buff of RoF increases dps by a large margin. Spanish does not need it. > [@WedInk504838973](#): > > OPTIONAL-(Blacksmith upgrades now cost gold (just to balance a bit the next buff)) > > -All economic upgrades have a 50% food discount. > > OPTIONAL (-Trade units now generate 20% more gold ( was 25%). I think it is quite op compared to italians trade bonus for example.) I prefer Spanish eco bonus remain unchanged ---
**Author:** ![CactusSteak2171](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/cactussteak2171/32/29684_2.png) [@CactusSteak2171](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/CactusSteak2171)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2021, 3:01pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/balance-suggestions-for-the-spanish/130798/40 "2021-05-18T15:01:30Z")
> [@AbuzzJam4677680](#): > > It’s ok to have a few civs to play quick walling Quickwalling doesn’t really depend on building speed, most of its strenght comes from the fact a building foundation is enough to block enemy units, and that the HP the villagers gives it while building it is more than enough to keep them out for a while. ---
**Author:** ![WedInk504838973](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/wedink504838973/32/97010_2.png) [@WedInk504838973](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/WedInk504838973)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2021, 6:44pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/balance-suggestions-for-the-spanish/130798/41 "2021-05-18T18:44:46Z")
> [@CactusSteak2171](#): > > I did misread. But Spanish CG do fire faster already on top of the ballisitics. Its funny bcos spanish CG lose to the generic version. ---
**Author:** ![CactusSteak2171](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/cactussteak2171/32/29684_2.png) [@CactusSteak2171](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/CactusSteak2171)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2021, 6:46pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/balance-suggestions-for-the-spanish/130798/42 "2021-05-18T18:46:17Z")
??? How is that possible? Even if the Spanish one doesn’t fire faster its projectiles travel so much faster it will always land the finishing blow first. ---
**Author:** ![TungstenBoar](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/tungstenboar/32/173768_2.png) [@TungstenBoar](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/TungstenBoar)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2021, 6:58pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/balance-suggestions-for-the-spanish/130798/43 "2021-05-18T18:58:18Z")
Spanish CG win against all other CGs since its easy to dodge them. ---
**Author:** ![WedInk504838973](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/wedink504838973/32/97010_2.png) [@WedInk504838973](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/WedInk504838973)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2021, 7:05pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/balance-suggestions-for-the-spanish/130798/44 "2021-05-18T19:05:25Z")
> [@CactusSteak2171](#): > > How is that possible? (3:30) [![](https://forums.ageofempires.com/uploads/default/original/3X/c/d/cd1b3eb96b6bcdced2e41218e7b19184407139e9.jpeg "ELITE CANNON GALLEON (Spanish) vs EVERY BATTLE SHIP | AoE II: Definitive Edition") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtWz1mxtk8Q) [Previous page](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/balance-suggestions-for-the-spanish/130798.md?page=1) [Next page](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/balance-suggestions-for-the-spanish/130798.md?page=3)