Balance Suggestions

They are fine, their accuracy not great. Slowing them makes no sense. They have empty stables.

They don’t have good Archery Ranges and you are telling us let’s remove infantry too.

Indians are weird. I think civ must be re-designed. All of bonuses, tech tree and unique units.

I both loved and hated it. Khmer doesn’t have good tech tree. All trash units lacks 1 upgrade if they lack Hussars. I think portal guns from Age of Empires 3 and it must stay in Age of Empires 3. They need other solid things like a little tech tree buff instead of farming.

You can sell 100 stone for gold. Make TC to stone get 50 stone and make 4 TC boom. Or You can make 4 TC and get 50 stone and then 5 TC boom. Or invest them on Fetoria. 150 too much make it 50 or 100.

Makes no sense. Heros can’t converted. Some important buildings can’t converted. You can nerf their Paladins, not infantry (completely). Maybe making +1 in Castle or +1 in Imp. Or, like Turkish buff we can do this bonus much more complicated, +1 in Feudal.

It looks too much like Age of Empires 3 shipments.

I have no idea about other stuff so I won’t talk without any idea.

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Sorry but this quote just proves that its a good thing you are not in charge of the balance :smiley:

Bracer not only gives range, it also gives +1 dmg which is actually more important vs melee units (the range part beeing more important vs ranged). Vs a +2 kts, bracer increases dmg by an amazing 33%. So no, having +1 range (which is, i remind you, compensated by lower accuracy and RoF) is not even close to the same as +1 dmg +1range.

4 Likes

Rams and skirms don’t exist lalala :musical_note:

And again + 150 free stone is as easy to use as spamming TC or clicking the sell stone button at the market. I still don’t get your sense of what is unique, or difficult or original.

5 Likes

Port: 30% tech

It simply encourage them to go for the very generic crossbow build, just like Malians have their 80% university, having 30% on Bodkin, Xbow and Ballistics is indeed nice, but very little, and towards the wrong path, meta.

Vietnamese

I agree that it’d make Cavalier much less attractive, though I’d pay this price in order to make their Elephants strong and relevant,maybe a different change is needed.

Lazy buff

means giving a civ an eco bonus that is very global, too easy, just like they did with Khmer farmers.

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briton archers are actually WORSE than generic

Not true sadly, with minimal micro, briton mass of archers win every other mass of archers, walking back and hitting the enemy benefits those with higher range, that’s how micro works, that’s why xbows can outmicro archers with no casualties.
Your arguement is correct only if applies to archers standing hitting each other as if they were AI.

Btw I dont mind making it 4% flat, rather than 4% per age, it’s very minor, Lithuanians have 10% which is very noticable.

What can frank without halbs do vs heavy camel?

2seconds
Throwing Axemen, FU Champs, and overall Paladin wins Heavy Camel, only loses to Imperial Camel, you can play mix pikes if you insist to go meta Paladins.
And if you feel exotic you can always go FU Scorps that melt Camels.
They have options, just not meta.

Portuguese:
annoying with towerrushes

I dont understand what’s annoying about it, it’s another way to play the game, it doesnt have to be xbows and knights all the time, and sometimes it can end up as a mild tower rush, not a full commitment like Incas.

Its not because their champs are good, its not because they are weak to monks

That’s why I gave them a specific buff against monks.

franks absolutely need halbs to counter other paladin civs.

Better Paladins? (More HP, Faster to produce and faster to reach)
Besides that, not every civ should have a counter unit to every composition, its a strategy game after all, we need to get out of our comfort zone, there is a reason why Franks are so easy and so strong.
Celts have no counter to Mangudai, Aztecs have no counter to mass Hussars, Burmese have no counter to Arbalests, etc…

should we nerf slav hussars and malian light cavalry then?

Regarding Khmer, that’s exactly why we shouldnt nerf Slavs, and we should nerf Khmer, for the sake of diversity, that’s how slavs should and able to be played late game, for some reason, people do exactly the same with Khmer. Copy paste Slavs, too boring, Khmer has so much more to offer, more than Slavs.

making this castle age still won’t matter because war elephants are still too expensive to see use in castle age.

War Elephants are not expensive in Castle Age, you dont need multiple Castles to make them nor mass to be effective, in BF you would want to go 160 vills and War Elephant production, in reality, Arabia wise, you can go naturally to a prolonged Castle Age and mix War Ele with Knights, very good especially against those who choose to transition to Imp.

Every civ has a counter to every composition. Otherwise you would get civ losses with any skill involved.

Elite Skirmishers.

Garland Wars Pikemen.

Elite Skirmishers.

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Spanish are not unique at all.

Conquistador is the absolute strongest unit in Castle Age, the most solid one of them all, at least in the previous version of AOE.
Anyways, everyone knows how unique Spanish are, you see them fully wall in Dark Age and you immediately know what’s their plan possibly, almost no civ can pull off a full-wall into a defensive Castle, it’s so unique, are we talking about the same civ?

Try to do the same Build order with other civs and it’d fail, despite having better eco, Rattans, Wagons, Mangudais, Boyars, Gbetos, Leitis, Organs, none can justify a defensive castle.
Perhaps Arambai, Plumes and Huskarls, the rest are not as unique as these.

Bracer not only gives range

hmm duh, that’s why I said almost, I know perfectly the math behind damage, archers are the unit who benefits the MOST of any damage buff, that’s why we dont have a civ with a +1 damage to archers of any sort.

However when it comes to fighting other Archers, range matters more, sadly, with proper micro you can just hit and run.

It is not, and even if it was, it does not make Spanish unique.
Spanish is a cookiecutter civ, that basically has all relevant options.

Just like any other civ with a wide array of lategame FU options. Portuguese, Chinese, Byzantines do the same.

War Wagons, Mangudai, Plumes, Longbowmen, Cataphracts, Throwing Axemen, Kamayuks…
Many UUs justify a defensive Castle, which does not need an UU to justify anyway.

A defensive Castle is justified by being the strongest defensive structure that you can defend your economy with.
A forward Gold justifies a defensive Castle with any civ.

Spanish are the most baseline, full tech civ in the game. Their only important missing techs are Crossbow and Arbalest.
They are not special, or designed to be unique at all. Even their UU is not special, since UU Cav archers have been in the game since Mangudai.

Janissary, the original UU Gunpowder unit, is stronger than the Conq, in the Castle Age.

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Every civ has a counter to every composition.

In an utopian world, maybe, in AOE it doesnt work like that, an example:
Burmese have no counter to Genoese Crossbows, nothing, does it make the match up predictable?
The answer is No, absolutely, the game is more complex than just units and counters.

Same about Mayans and Goths, I’d personally go for Mayans in this case, despite the Huskarls doomsday, I have the power to prevent it, and that’s the beauty of a startegy game.

Elite Skirmishers.

With no Bracer, No Ring Armor, And No Tumb Ring.
Are you serious?
Magudai does 6dmg with double the attackspeed
Skirm does 8dmg with half the attackspeed
It’s 12dmg per unit of time VS 8dmg per unit of time
And Im not even talking about the micro potential, mix of annoying hussars, and ofc the amount of HP each unit has.

Elite Skirmishers.

Ok, I dont know what to say any more, I think you should try to ask Hera in his next stream about Burmese answer to Arbalest, he would simply answer “none”, finish them earlier.

these 2 do seem like good points. I don’t know what Malians would do against Paladin Champ.

personally, I’d be too scared of monks & pikes, (especially given 7 WE cost almost as much as Imp + cavalier,) but perhaps I should give it a try

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Many UUs justify a defensive Castle, which does not need an UU to justify anyway.

lol man, it’s very easy to debunk, I mean, you have a very progressive approach to strategy, there is a reason why you see Defensive Castle Build Order with Spanish almost exclusively, and not with Kamayuks, Axemen, Cata…

Besides that, a defensive Castle must always be justified or else you’d be behind economically. Unless it’s BF or low elo legends.

Burmese has Elite Skirmishers

Mayan Eagles and Plumes murder Huskarls, it is just that Mayans players are just too reliant on Crossbows/Arbalests with Obsidian Arrows.

Yes, they still beat Mangudai.

The guy that di not even know Franks lack both Bracer and ring Archer Armour?

Defending resources. Justified.

Dont pull rank here just because you are losing the argument. I see Viper making defensive Castles all the time, with every civ.

3 Likes

these 2 do seem like good points. I don’t know what Malians would do against Paladin Champ.

In theory Gbeto could be the counter to double melee compositions, however the unit is lacking, very unplayable, but if you’re a micro freak you can pull it off, Ive seen some pro do it.
The other option is Farimba Camels, which are pretty much the best Camels in the game currently (considering Indians nerf).

I’d be too scared of monks & pikes,

I get you bro, I think that the key is the element of surprise, good mostly against archer civs that are too busy going Imp, and have no res for fancy monk transition.
Anyways WE are not that good in this balance :slight_smile:

I’m not so sure about that.

The Britons already have the slowest, most agonizing push composition in all of AOE, I don’t really understand the want to make it worse. Nerfing the Arbalest isn’t going to make the Longbow more viable, they exist for two distinct purposes. There’s a whole host of unit matchups where the longbow transition makes the composition work.

You want to take away their only fully-upgraded trash unit? This isn’t “a less impressive lategame” this is “a civ that has no lategame once the gold ends.” This is a serious overreach.

Having more range is not basically a nerf.

Because without it they have nothing to support a siege push. You want them to put out 2h’d swordsmen and Halbs missing two pierce armor? Or do you honestly believe the Khmer can afford to mass out Battle Elephants and Siege together. The civ is already missing Bombard Cannon, which means enemy siege is a threat to which the hussar is the only response.

In general, a civ has to be severely overtuned to deserve having a trash upgrade taken away and there aren’t any civs strong enough to warrant such a punishment.

Karambits are not a bad unit and your suggestion would utterly break Malay without question. The Karambit was never as strong as your suggested changes would make them and they’ve been nerfed multiple times because even then the simple transition to them in Imp would actually end games even when the player using Malay was at a significant disadvantage.

Why do you want every civ to have absolutely no answer to Siege? Is massed Siege a pet strategy you’re trying to stealth buff by making every civ horrible against it? At least this civ you’re trying to ruin has BBC in imperial after they’ve lost the entire map to smush, but that doesn’t make things better.

Anything I didn’t mention, I don’t see the point of changing, or feel like the change would be a net neutral that mixes up the civ for no real reason other than change for change’s sake.

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Ive asked around and apparently the answer is “don’t let Franks get there” aka they don’t have a counter. Even frank paladins + pikes will beat mali compositions nevermind halbs or champs.

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Heavy Camel + Champion. Malians also get Hand Cannoneer, so they have another option against enemy Champs.

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Mayan Eagles and Plumes murder Huskarls

What?
Have you seen that match up?
Huskarls vs Mayans is the current most brutal match ups in late game.
Huskarls get just 2dmg from plumes, and do bonus damage vs eagles, and considering they’re even cheaper than both.

Burmese has Elite Skirmishers

No 2 aramor upgrades, means no reason to make it unless facing a CA of any sort, which then you can justify the extra damage they do. That’s why you’d never see a pro relying on Skirms that heavily, the idea is always to manuver between either Cav or Arambai.

Yes, they still beat Mangudai.

Hmmm again a false statement, you can easily test it even against AI with no micro, it’s pretty smooth.

The guy that di not even know Franks lack both Bracer and ring Archer Armour?

So now you’re trashtalking Hera? then ask Viper.

Defending resources. Justified.
Dont pull rank here just because you are losing the argument. I see Viper making defensive Castles all the time, with every civ.

What? we’re talking about a defensive castle buildorder, are you now talking about Late castle age castle on a hill kind of castle? what? that’s mandatory late game.
Pros never go for a FC defensive Castle, that’s what unique about spanish, and also beautiful.