TGs are pretty much impossible to balance I think. I’m just saying AllergicTable likes to support suggestions that can destroy/hurt a civ identity, and Franks are the most iconic knight civ in the game. Removing blast furnace is really going to hurt them lategame. It might have the impact you are looking for, but it will drop Frank playrate, and lategame winrate significantly. I think reducing berry bonus, changing HP bonus into 10%/20% in Feudal/Castle, and nerfing Chivalry are all possibilities.
4 Likes
I say it’s the only thing going for them because if you go Franks you’re gonna try to make paladins, that’s what makes sense.
I don’t like the castle discount because it makes Castle dropping too easy for franks, and not that much of a big deal if it happens to fail. → just my personal opinion on this matter lol
But at least gives the player less frustration when paladins die if is 1v1, and that gold back is worth for throwing axemen, champions, hand cannoneers… but not enough to respawn a whole Knight army. and Franks have poor trash units to start with.
Well the effect that proposed is better balanced than current chivalry, 40% faster working stables is not only broken, but just a straight up better bonus than Huns team bonus.
If one wants to keep Franks as one-dimensional knight civ with the best Paladin spam, keeping range units total garbage, infantry and Siege semi-garbage. While keeping Franks still viable in 1v1.
Then yes i agree, it is impossible to balance such one-dimensional civ for both 1v1 and TG.
Lol Huns get it from feudal and dont need to pay for it. Thats diferent enough
Also Franks would be totally fine if you nerf their eco. If Huns are fine, Franks will be fine too.
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No, my point is that Huns have ordinary paladins while Franks are among the strongest.
192 HP paladins with +2 LOS are strong enough no more.
Id say just remove the free farm upgrades and call it a day.
Time will tell if franks go to crapper in 1v1 for it or not.
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Their infantry is fine. It just isn’t as good as their knight line. Franks are like Goths. Both really 1 dimensional. Franks are better designed though. Basically, I don’t think you should nerf Frank paladin directly, but any of the stuff I suggested before lowers the chances of them getting there, and could be possibilities.
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You were talking about how it is just a better Hun bonus when Huns overall get a way better bonus since they dont need to wait to imp until using it and they dont need to pay 1100 resources.
Maybe, but +12 hp and +2 LoS is barely anything, imo Cuman paladins are slightly better. The problem is just that Franks have a super strong eco and free bloodlines.
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Their infantry is solid with FU, and their UU is very good especially against Goths. They have BBC, which is most important in Arena. Also they access HC, which is pretty good in imp. I don’t know what are you talking about.
Franks are not versatile civ but also not that one-dimensional civ.
Persians are more one-dimensional as cavalry civ I think.
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Then as a one-dimensional knight civ. Balance should be made to make them a lot weaker in 1v1 but still one of the best pocket civs. Like nerfing their eco.
Removing berry speed is totally insignificant. So only option is removing free farm upgrades.
Uh why removing the berry bonus would be “totally unsignificant”
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That allows to survive 1 more hit from halbs.
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I think other way around personally. The goal should be for them to be both decent in 1v1 and TGs. If I had to pick, I think I would rather they are weaker in TGs maybe. That would free up space for more civs to take. I think free farms are good. Nerfing berries reduces their scout rush potential, as does splitting the HP buff over Feudal/Castle. Nerfing chivalry then balances them a lot for TGs, without too much of a 1v1 effect.
That doesnt matter in TGs at all
Maybe not, but it definitely does in 1v1s.
Yes, but he always complains about Franks in TGs
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Franks is all about early game eco bonuses. It is one of the worst civ in the late game. Remove one of the eco bonuses and Frank will be totally fine civ. Let’s say give bloodlines but give 15% hp to cavalries with Castle UT. 40% faster Stables is actually low, I would buff to 50%.
Yeah let’s just make them even more dominant in team games why don’t we?
2 Likes
I dont think they can be weaker in TGs than 1v1 with one of the best Paladins. TG is all about Paladins, 1v1 not so much.