Well, When eagles came out I thought they have too many roles, now champi has even more.
Eagles 2.0 (20 characters)
Champi scouts through Elite have +1 against shock infantry, and I suspect that is only so that they can trade evenly against eagles in dark age. I’m not certain how well they do against eagles in later ages. Heavy cav will beat them, and the militia-line should be able to ward them off. And I think defensive archers will also be able to ward them off (though moving to attack would be quite risky, so probably not the best option). They’re a generalist unit, and so they are often soft-countered rather than hard-countered (much like the militia line imo). Hand cannons (and equivalents) do seem to be the only hard counters.
Well I can say this is a problem. No hard counter means you can’t win against a numbers advantage until imperial age + chemistry.
Sorry I’m so slow to answer.
The triple (or more?) nerf to the Champi probably accomplished what it had to in the early game (as a detail, nerfing the Outpost build speed makes so much sense!), but it’s now a net negative for South American civs in terms of scouting if they don’t add more Champis. I think it’s really difficult to predict where Champis (at all stages of the game) will end up now, so let’s see how the dust settles…
I still think it’s fine for them to be a good early option, as long as it can be countered or deterred without being an unfair advantage automatically. I still think longsword-line should have a small bonus damage against them.
There’s also a discussion about the context of the civs (especially eco and settlements) but I just wanted to address the unit power itself.
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Maybe time to revive this topic?
Except of Tupi the new civs seem to be very bad now. Classic overnerf. And what part of the nerf actually did the heavy beating? Impossible to tell.
So… what’s the approach? Try to adjust Champi from here or go back to the OG and try some more specific nerfs and not a blunt one we had in the last patch?
Adjusting Tup/Inca early game bonusses? Or expanding (my favorite) the champi bonusses form Mapuche and Muisca to dark age?
First one. Revert everything. Then -
- Trained Champi Scout speed reduced to 0.9 just like Militia. Starting one stay at 1.1.
- Champi Upgrades costs can stay as it is now.
So you suggest adding a new unit into the game. Because they’re not the same unit if they have different stats.
I do think reducing champi scout attack was a good move, as it weakens their ability to kill villagers and to break through buildings. Dark age fighting with militia is fairly rare (and usually more intended as a distraction than an attempt to kill vils), so the dark age nerfs aren’t that big a penalty (even with champi scout strats completely killed off). But the nerfs to Feudal age were pretty unnecessary imo and should be reverted (or at least mostly reverted). I’d start by either reverting the champi runner upgrade nerfs or the +5f cost nerf.