# Battle Elephants for the Indians **URL:** \ **Category:** II - Discussion\ **Created:** [February 28, 2020, 2:22am UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/battle-elephants-for-the-indians/72614 "2020-02-28T02:22:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 29
**Author:** ![TheDarkness3673](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/thedarkness3673/32/29249_2.png) [@TheDarkness3673](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/TheDarkness3673)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2020, 2:22pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/battle-elephants-for-the-indians/72614/1140 "2020-05-03T14:22:29Z")
they have a use. if you say they dont and that is a fact you are laying to yourself ---
**Author:** ![TheDarkness3673](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/thedarkness3673/32/29249_2.png) [@TheDarkness3673](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/TheDarkness3673)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2020, 2:24pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/battle-elephants-for-the-indians/72614/1141 "2020-05-03T14:24:42Z")
> [@JonOli12](#): > > Because all you care about, is Indians, not the state of the game. > > This has exposed you as a fanatic nationalist. if i only cared about indians i would not respond to other forums. i dont care that much if they are changed or not but i think shuting down suggestion with all or noting mentaliy is not an argument. if you creat a topic that i will be interasted in and will think that it might be a good change i will support you. ---
**Author:** ![TheDarkness3673](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/thedarkness3673/32/29249_2.png) [@TheDarkness3673](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/TheDarkness3673)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2020, 2:26pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/battle-elephants-for-the-indians/72614/1142 "2020-05-03T14:26:25Z")
> [@JonOli12](#): > > Because all you care about, is Indians, not the state of the game. again me always saying balanc first and you stating that i dont…11 ---
**Author:** ![ArshiaAghaei](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/arshiaaghaei/32/52335_2.png) [@ArshiaAghaei](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/ArshiaAghaei)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2020, 2:31pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/battle-elephants-for-the-indians/72614/1143 "2020-05-03T14:31:18Z")
> [@Juggernaut8704](#): > > I wouldn’t mind if them completely remove the camels from Indians They are called a camel civ and lack knights, so that wouldn’t be the best idea. > [@Why must the Indians be denied Battle Elephants? We could work on balancing, but they should get them being their Major theme](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/why-must-the-indians-be-denied-battle-elephants-we-could-work-on-balancing-but-they-should-get-them-being-their-major-theme/80288/208): > > I am a bit uncomfortable on why Ethiopians be given Elephants but not Chinese? Do you really intend to give a top tier civ Battle Elephants?! Let’s give Persians Battle Elephants too I guess… > [@Why must the Indians be denied Battle Elephants? We could work on balancing, but they should get them being their Major theme](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/why-must-the-indians-be-denied-battle-elephants-we-could-work-on-balancing-but-they-should-get-them-being-their-major-theme/80288/216): > > that is what most players whant Not sure about most players, but this would make them way more accurate. > [@Why must the Indians be denied Battle Elephants? We could work on balancing, but they should get them being their Major theme](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/why-must-the-indians-be-denied-battle-elephants-we-could-work-on-balancing-but-they-should-get-them-being-their-major-theme/80288/442): > > Because I personally, will start a million threads asking for it ngl, the Indian civ change threads are about 4-5 atm. ---
**Author:** ![TheDarkness3673](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/thedarkness3673/32/29249_2.png) [@TheDarkness3673](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/TheDarkness3673)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2020, 2:38pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/battle-elephants-for-the-indians/72614/1144 "2020-05-03T14:38:41Z")
> [@ArshiaAghaei](#): > > They are called a camel civ and lack knights, so that wouldn’t be the best idea. thats where a rebalenc of a civ comes first, they get something they lose something…etc maybe doing something with UU that at least it could be used would help > [@ArshiaAghaei](#): > > Not sure about most players, but this would make them way more accurate. i agree we cant know what all whant 😃 but sienc this topic was voiced from the start of indians that they didnt have a real identety and we need to listen to players that acualy come to discuss it. devs should always listen to the comunitiy about what they think befor making a change, maybe with a survey. sienc such rework would be a really big thing for players that might really like the civ already, devs talking to the comunitiy would be really great ---
**Author:** ![JonOli12](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/jonoli12/32/50441_2.png) [@JonOli12](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/JonOli12)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2020, 3:59pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/battle-elephants-for-the-indians/72614/1145 "2020-05-03T15:59:36Z")
> [@Why must the Indians be denied Battle Elephants? We could work on balancing, but they should get them being their Major theme](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/why-must-the-indians-be-denied-battle-elephants-we-could-work-on-balancing-but-they-should-get-them-being-their-major-theme/80288/1): > > the Indians are one of the most poorly designed civs in the game Heavily disagree. From a gameplay point of view, Indians are one of the best designed civs, and that is what AoE2 is, a game. Indians are a fast Boom civ (due to having such a large industrial base in the Middle Ages), and therefore should not get access to either Knights or Battle Elephants, since those units would quickly become abusive, when compounded ith the Excellet Indian Economy (Fishermen bonus + Villager discount + Sultans UT). Because the devs decided to pull the civ on the eco front, they must have quickly seen how out-of-hand it would go with access to Knights (same problem as BE, too pop-efficient), and decided to remove all Indian Heavy Cavalry. To compensate, the Camel line was buffed a lot, and this proved to be a prudent decision. The reality of it is, that Indians are already a complete and brutal package, as far as gameplay is involved, and gameplay is the key factor to any game. Just look at Company of Heroes 1, where the Axis were massively OP, because the devs wanted to be a bit mor accurate. It was a balance nightmare. CoH2 is much more arcade (gamey) and is the better game for it. Historical accuracy must be sacrificed for the sake of gameplay, every time, because History was neither fun, or balanced, when it came to conflict. In fact, it tended to be very one-sided most of the time. ---
**Author:** ![TheDarkness3673](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/thedarkness3673/32/29249_2.png) [@TheDarkness3673](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/TheDarkness3673)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2020, 4:14pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/battle-elephants-for-the-indians/72614/1146 "2020-05-03T16:14:19Z")
just give them normal elephant and not elite + fix UU and i think most of indians topics will dissapere ---
**Author:** ![bigbossbro08](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/bigbossbro08/32/29254_2.png) [@bigbossbro08](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/bigbossbro08)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2020, 7:07pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/battle-elephants-for-the-indians/72614/1147 "2020-05-03T19:07:02Z")
I still doubt fully upgraded Ele would make difference ---
**Author:** ![UpmostRook9474](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/upmostrook9474/32/47514_2.png) [@UpmostRook9474](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/UpmostRook9474)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2020, 7:40pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/battle-elephants-for-the-indians/72614/1148 "2020-05-03T19:40:05Z")
> [@JonOli12](#): > > Indians are one of the best designed civs Yeah its tech tree and bonus might be great, the worst part is it is named “Indians”. 11 If it was designed for becoming another civ which really related to camels in the medieval age, maybe there would be no debates now. ---
**Author:** ![JonOli12](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/jonoli12/32/50441_2.png) [@JonOli12](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/JonOli12)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2020, 7:42pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/battle-elephants-for-the-indians/72614/1149 "2020-05-03T19:42:03Z")
No, they have the Indian super-economy that the subcontinent had in the Middle Ages. But because they have such a great, historiclly accurate economy, they cannot have Heavy cavalry of any sort, due to Balance reasons. ---
**Author:** ![PskWarrior3206](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/pskwarrior3206/32/30423_2.png) [@PskWarrior3206](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/PskWarrior3206)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2020, 3:39am UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/battle-elephants-for-the-indians/72614/1150 "2020-05-04T03:39:33Z")
Finally there should be some conclusion after the debate. If Indians cannot be given Battle Elephants as argued by some, atleast it makes some sense to improve the Elephant Archer. Either increase the attack or speed. Else they become moving corpses against Halberdiers and Skirmishers. ---
**Author:** ![JonOli12](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/jonoli12/32/50441_2.png) [@JonOli12](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/JonOli12)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2020, 5:01am UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/battle-elephants-for-the-indians/72614/1151 "2020-05-04T05:01:48Z")
The issue with Improving Elephant Archers, is that Indians are already a great civ, that is incredibly powerful, and has a great Boom in Feudal and Castle Age. They are clearly geared towards using Archery Range and Camel units, which they can field easily and fast. The EA is not a bad unit in itself, it is a very tanky Archer that benefits from Cavalry Archer upgrades and is very resistant to Pierce Damage; only you seldom need a unit like this, unless it is fast or easily spammable. The drawback of the EA are there specifically so it cannot overshadow Longbowmen, Chu Ko Nus, Magudai, and other Archers UUs it beats 1 on 1. ---
**Author:** ![PskWarrior3206](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/pskwarrior3206/32/30423_2.png) [@PskWarrior3206](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/PskWarrior3206)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2020, 7:15am UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/battle-elephants-for-the-indians/72614/1152 "2020-05-04T07:15:26Z")
Agreed, EAs are good against Infantry except Pikemen line and they are good against many archers. But their slow speed and low attack is the reason they are not effective overall. There is definitely a room for improvement in this area. ---
**Author:** ![JokerPenguin593](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/jokerpenguin593/32/128367_2.png) [@JokerPenguin593](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/JokerPenguin593)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2020, 7:41am UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/battle-elephants-for-the-indians/72614/1153 "2020-05-04T07:41:06Z")
If the shorefish nerf affects their perfomance, a little buff to EA can be enough to bring them to their current position again. ---
**Author:** ![LobsterEmperor](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/lobsteremperor/32/103902_2.png) [@LobsterEmperor](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/LobsterEmperor)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2020, 4:47am UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/battle-elephants-for-the-indians/72614/1155 "2020-05-08T04:47:21Z")
Indians have fully upgraded Cavalry Archers complete with Parthian Tactics. They make great support with their powerful Hand Cannons. ---
**Author:** ![Juggernaut8704](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/juggernaut8704/32/203886_2.png) [@Juggernaut8704](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/Juggernaut8704)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2020, 5:58am UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/battle-elephants-for-the-indians/72614/1156 "2020-05-08T05:58:41Z")
still **it is not justified to call them very strong** in that field as there is no specific civ bonuses related to archery range. you can call them average but not very strong. a lot of civs have cavalry archers with parthian tactics. ---
**Author:** ![JonOli12](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/jonoli12/32/50441_2.png) [@JonOli12](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/JonOli12)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2020, 6:00am UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/battle-elephants-for-the-indians/72614/1157 "2020-05-08T06:00:43Z")
> [@Juggernaut8704](#): > > there is no specific civ bonuses related to archery range. There is, the Villager discount helps a lot with Eco boomings, which is beneficial to all units in general. Shatagini UT directly benefits Hand Cannoneers, and Sultans indirectly benefits all Gold units, like Cav Archers and HCs. > [@Juggernaut8704](#): > > a lot of civs have cavalry archers with parthian tactics. Very few civs have FU Heavy Cavalry Archers, and Indians is one of them. In fact, 2 dedicated Cav Archers civs are missing upgrades for them, the Huns and the Mongols. ---
**Author:** ![Juggernaut8704](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/juggernaut8704/32/203886_2.png) [@Juggernaut8704](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/Juggernaut8704)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2020, 6:07am UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/battle-elephants-for-the-indians/72614/1158 "2020-05-08T06:07:03Z")
i agree to those points of yours. ---
**Author:** ![Parthnan](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/parthnan/32/55505_2.png) [@Parthnan](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/Parthnan)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2020, 8:20pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/battle-elephants-for-the-indians/72614/1159 "2020-05-09T20:20:00Z")
> [@JonOli12](#): > > Maybe you are not, but you surely realize that, if Indians get redesigned for historical accuracy, then EVERYONE else will want the same treatment, and they will be forced to do it, as it will open teh flood gates for these kinds of threads. Look, we have talked through this before. The **Mongols did get “redesigned” for historical accuracy in the exact sense** as is being demanded here, by them receiving Steppe Lancers ((that too with bonus HP). And that didnt lead to “EVERYONE asking for same treatment”, as **this issue with Indians comes from before the creation of SL itself** And before you claim yet again that the Mongols change was fine as SL is not a major change to their Winrates, you know very well SL are going to be buffed sometime in the future, as the balance changes won’t end anytime soon. ---
**Author:** ![MatCauthon3](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/matcauthon3/32/29474_2.png) [@MatCauthon3](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/MatCauthon3)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2020, 8:59pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/battle-elephants-for-the-indians/72614/1160 "2020-05-09T20:59:10Z")
They got a single unit, that didn’t affect their balance or civ design. You want something that affects both. And you have zero proof that the step lancer is going to get buffed. It is strictly your opinion that they will [Previous page](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/battle-elephants-for-the-indians/72614.md?page=28) [Next page](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/battle-elephants-for-the-indians/72614.md?page=30)