Bengalis is the worst civ out of the 4 new ones

You are aware that these vils are free (contrary to cumams)? So you can do whatever you want this without any drawback.

All TCs giving out vills upong being built sounds like when Tatars had the bonus sheep in feudal and castle. That ended up being pretty nuts so I don’t think replacing sheep with villagers will end up giving a balanced civ.

2 Likes

And here’s the thing, Bengali Battle eles still lose to Khmer Battle eles in 1v1, and Khmer eles move faster, is pretty obvious who’s better.

And that’s the main problem with this civ right now, they don’t have an affordable and mobile option for castle age, and they lack Thumb Ring, so what you do when you hit castle age?

1v1 Khmer kills you before you can go to BE :rofl:
Khmer have so many options in castle age compared to Bengalis it’s not even fun.
But yes, elephant vs elephant Khmer wins for sure, but Bengalis can deal better with halbs opposition, which you’d likely face, even in TG.

Pray that the 2 vill lead from feudal, and the free 2 vills you just got in Castle age is enough for your xbows push, that seems right now the only strategy. They need help for sure, and I think a lot of interesting things have been proposed, now we have to see if devs want to do something about it.

Tatars were much more powerful in Castle age though, and they have both knights AND camels, and free TR, no wonder the sheep bonus was too strong, plus IIRC Keshik costed 50f 40g at the time. :fearful:

Ratha is more like a psychological unit. It looks very scary, until you remember you can just queue up Skirmishers.

2 Likes

Wasn’t the sheep bonus so strong because you got extra sheep in Feudal Age, so you could effectively skip farms until Castle Age?

Yep, on top of the good Tatars tech tree and bonuses in Castle age.
But there’s an abyss between Tatars military options in castle age and Bengalis’, not that I would encourage anything, just stating some things.

1 Like

I have an idea: swap the villager bonus of Bengalis and Hindustanis!
I feel like Bengalis needs the food bonus starting Dark Age MUCH MORE.

No
Hindustanis are fine with the cheaper villager bonus.

Not really.
Bengali military units are far more food intensive than Hindustanis as it stands now. The old Indians would make more sense to have the villager discount.
Elephant civs absolutely needs food-focused bonus. Khmer for example.

Burmese is also an elephant civ and no food eco bonus is present…

Is because Bengalis are flawed in castle age, only limited to go for elephants which cost a ton to be made here.
And Hindustani always have been fine with the cheaper villagers bonus.

1 Like

How about giving Bengalis free bloodlines? It helps them get a n advantage in Feudal Age and also helps getting to Ratha more easily. Without knights and cemels, this may be one of the few civs where this bonus would not be OP. Then again, Hera says Bengalis are already A-tier, so maybe they are fine as is?

Free Bloodlines would be ridiculously OP on feudal age, do you know why Franks are soo good in 1v1 and OP in TGs? Is because in feudal they get a big military supremacy backed by insane economy, in fact a scout with bloodlines and the frankish scout take one extra hit from spearmen (That’s why I still think the Franks cavalry HP bonus must only apply starting at the castle age), Bengalis, while their feudal eco isn’t as strong, +2 free villagers isn’t a bad one.

1 Like

True, but they cannot follow up with knights. So, once it gets to castle age the opponent will have an opening. Atleast that was my theory. In contrast, Franks follow up their Feudal advantage with a strong castle age which is where most Frank games end. Franks can also get up to Feudal faster than Bengalis and then play scouts. Bengalis playing scouts are more likely to hit walls since they don’t get any bonuses in Dark Age. Also, in late feudal the advantage goes away once opponent gets bloodlines.

Which is essentially the reason why Bloodlines is always researched in the way to castle age not before (because it delays you age up). And also why Franks are soo strong in TGs (they win vs other scouts early, defend better vs spears and they are a bit better vs archers too). And that’s why Chinese is that good overall (cheaper techs bonus), and why Burgundians can’t never get bloodlines.

I think you are underrating the role dark age bonuses play towards making those civs that strong. Franks and Chinese can get to Feudal faster than Bengalis and make more scouts. Bengalis are generic in Dark Age. Late scouts lose to walls, no matter how much HP they have.

This is the reason I suggested free bloodlines for Bengalis. I don’t see any way to make their castle age less problematic without changing their identity. So, I thought giving them a strong Feudal Age would be okay. With free bloodlines, Bengalis can get an advantage in Feudal that makes their Castle Age transition less painful. Other civs will have an advantage in this stage of the game and can come back from whatever Bengalis did in Feudal.

1 Like

I don’t think it will be OP for Bengalis at all. But I’d instead give it to a military focused civ like a third sibling of Magyars and Berbers.

Besides the fact that chinese isn’t faster to feudal you usually can’t full wall your base if opponent plays pop 19 scouts. You usually small wall and get spears. And say opponent has 6 scouts with bloodlines you always need 3 spears in one spot then. Bloodlines for scouts in feudal is extremely strong.

Giving it for free is op for any civ I think. Even worse for a civ with good eco bonus. Btw even if you don’t add more scouts just your starting scout is a huge threat as it can snipe multiple vils.

There are so many ways. Buff siege. Buff monks. Make rathas a lighter unit that is faster to get to. Give them thumbring…

Reminds me of a bonus that I proposed for any hypothetical new civ - Free cav armor.
Maybe not the biggest help for Bengalis as it will only help them scout → BE transition. No help for Archer → EA or Ratha strategy.

That’s actually a pretty reasonable proposal. I mean it probably won’t change the fact that you won’t open elephants in castle age but it basically means you can open scouts vs any opening your opponent does (that doesn’t include many spears).

So you could maybe go up to castle age very quick without needing to make range to profit earlier from your eco bonus. +2 defense might be op for knight civ but for bengalis I think it should be fine.