then you can always go for a quick desert archer backup , 2 pop if need be with shiftras which is a perfectly fine unit. even at 2 pop its a 22 range light infantry in age 2 that instant fires it doenst need anything else to make it better, it just cannot and should not be the core of your army and you shouldn’t try to make it the core of your army
its also a civ with 1 pop light range cav in age 2, it has so much more power when you are trying to play it like germany with cav skrim
I played with the Ethiopians before switching to the Italians, and I think it’s a good civ but it requires a lot of macro to be good in the lategame… I played Ethiopians in a game in Acropolis against 5 AIs on hard and you suffer a lot on Imperial because although it gives you the economy, the units are kind of weak…
But is that useful enough to still be worth it in age 3?
Nearly every option to get light infantry is a waste once you get to age 3 which just pushes skipping through age 2 as fast as possible.
The only ones I would consider not being a waste are those that give you units in age 2. So that’s just the Portuguese Crusaders tech, and even then you’re paying 70 influence per xbow for the first batch.
Maya Archers would add another option that also ships units so it isn’t totally a waste. Adding poison damage to Desert Archers and Levied Bowmen would be enough of a benefit to make them passably useful in age 2 even without any other cards. If you also wanted to invest in Shiftas and Loyal Warriors they’d be strong enough to be useful all of age 3.
You do realize not having easy access to light infantry is the trade off ethopia has for access to goon age2 right?
Hausa looses access to musk without a card as well.
It would appear the devs after giving you a very, very, good musk, coyote lancer, 1 pop cav archer plus nats, decided “man thats the same most civs get in age2 for unit comps thats probably balanced” after we saw what happened with DAs for months and the 30/30 cost bow patch(s). Besides, there is. Reason skirm goon is mostly not alloweed in age2- not just ethopia but most civs cant. Its part of game design to give long age2 civs good musk huss and semi civs pike xbow or such timings into skirm goon age3. Ebb and flow. Maybe vs musk huss you time early do damage before musk huss mass take map like every other semi civ and go to 3. Maybe vs civs like inca or haude you shotel gascenya. Options
That said fields suck as a mechanic i cant argue too mucn against. Thr lack of 2 falc shipment power level also hard in “bot a build” meta. Still Im against giving more already bloated civs easy skirm goon in age2 that scales all game. Too many times this has failed utterly as a balance.
Hausa has no need for musks. As you say they have top tier light cav, so they’re covered for anti-cav. Raiders have excellent siege damage so you don’t need a heavy infantry unit for that either.
The card to get them is very useful though because they’re native units so they shadow tech and become very cheap with Loyal Warriors. You also get units along with the card so there is immediate benefit to it. If they weren’t native units, I don’t think it would be worth sending. Especially when you can also get Maigadi by default.
This initial design concept is no longer relevant given the changes Ethiopia has seen since release.
This was a profoundly stupid change that should have been obvious that it would be busted. I’d like to see light infantry access without doing things that are objectively worse than going to age 3, not completely busted light infantry.
Give a couple of options that you can use as needed without having to tech into things that are immediately obsolete once you get to age 2. For example:
Maya Archers (500 coin) - Ships 8 Desert Archers and enables poison damage for Desert Archers, Levied Bowmen, and Holcan Javelineers.
Rework Conquistadors to function like a Rifle Rider. Ethiopia has no need for another standard age 2 light cav unit, but one that counters heavy infantry would be very useful.
Just another example of Hausa being better than Ethiopia at everything.
This is the attitude that kills civs like ethopia
Better? Hausa has fulani jav be good cause they cant really ff. So hausa is going to be facing age3 units with age2 units in most matchups. With no big benny, fast eco a la MM and a significant xp malus. Ethopia skirm and goon scale better as well (or so im told, im not 100% which jav is better). Both need map control but id argue far easier and flexible to spend coin than influence.
As for conqs all i can say is “french 3x carded rifle riders” and you realize its a bad idea. Maybe if we get a rework of nats or they are special conqs but then again if ethopia cant be punished by 2 falc the civ is just brak.
Those prior balance issues when weve buffed shotel(from DA days) and rebuffed gascneya are extremely dangeous to adding light infantry. Its not like you cant go port ship 700inf and get 10xbow vs rushes then push out with xbows when needed. Time with 6shotel and gasnceya and that kills any rush. Then there is how strong their current rush is.
Tbh i think i do agree the design is flawed, its just when you bloat a civ its hard to add anything else. I think thats whats so frusterating but also so fun about this civ- its a puzzle that requires alot of planning. Its not a legacy civ where std age up 400w 700 something into vills is every play. Without culling some options i fear there isnt much more space. But fwiw, i do enjoy this civ as is and find it far more engaging than hausa. So im hesistant to overbuff into overnerf again. Again again.
Ethiopia has the better javs, Hausa’s don’t actually scale all that well.
Good points, for sure they don’t need a huge anti-artillery multiplier like standard RR. But just countering heavy infantry wouldn’t be too bad. RR are countered by both skirms and goons so they aren’t too big of a deal. I’d also point out that French 3 carded Winged Hussars is already in problematic territory so some adjustments to that might be needed regardless.
Yes for sure. There are a few areas where African civs are just inextricably better than normal and could be nerfed. Anything and everything shadow teching is one area. They already have combined upgrades at the War Camp so locking your native upgrades behind that could be an option to cut down on some cheesy plays or abusing native strategies. Natives could also have their cost split with wood and influence to make them more accessible in the early game but more costly in the late game.
I think Hausa’s problem is several of the age ups are basically useless. Maybe I’m wrong, but I can’t think of any good reason to ever pick the Songhai or Akan alliances. Ethiopia by contrast has viable plays with almost every alliance.
Ethiopia has been nerfed so many times. Only fairly recently did the sebastopol finally become useable again after it got destroyed by endless nerfs. It’s a similar story to malta, where people whining about a civ get it nerfed despite hardly anyone playing them and win rate in the shitter.
Songhai is 1 of the best and most used age ups.
Just for the rushing with the Songhai Raide ability? All the techs it comes with seem terrible.
What’s new with Sebastopols? I don’t remember any changes that would make them not be junk.
Techs aren’t great yeah, for the raid ability, camp builder and 300g.
Well they nerfed the sebastopol into uselessness ages ago then a few patches back they got age 3 stats buffed iirc.
You do remember that it has a vet tech and also shadow techs with every age right
at 2 pop its basically a balanced abus gun
and again its not supposed to be the core of your army, you can keep making it if you want but its not required.
Like if you play china and you made xbow pike in age 2 and then skirm changdao in age 3 its not like somekind of big downside.
a lot of semi-ff china games have big mishmash armies of skirm and xbow , and then add it the muskets, iron troops etc
Like maybe its because I am used to china and its throw everything at the enemy armies but like if anything ethiopia has pretty sane options.
gascenya mixed with xbow or desert archers sounds simple compared to what china gets
edit: and here is like a point that should always be rememebered, xbow deals less damage to heavy infantry then normal euro musks do, gascenya, which has more damage then euro musks deals even more, not having access to xbow when you have musks is not a big issue
I would like this unit to be good again against general infantry.
French Civ is very balanced in its own right, has good Workers, and has an advantage in recruiting Native Warriors. It also has a very powerful “Revolutionary France” option, so you can’t go wrong.
GOD Revolutionary France…
But you have to invest at least 1 card to make it viable. So if you’ve made that big of investment it’s probably best to continue making them to make them to get the full value.
China’s probably the worst example to illustrate this. Aren’t fully upgraded Chu Ko Nu actually better than Arquebusiers? In TAD they definitely were and as far as I’m aware they’re still slightly better.
That’s not the full picture. Xbows have much greater range and cost ~20% less. That lets them get the first shot off or engage a larger mass from a safe distance. Even a stalemate with equal numbers will be cost effective.
I also think people are greatly exaggerating how capable Gascenya are at beating heavy infantry. You can’t just smash them into heavy infantry and expect to grind out a win. They have slightly higher attack and a little extra range, but that’s completely cancelled out by the lower health. Without a similar sized mass and good micro to leverage their slight range and speed advantage you will stalemate or lose to musks.
The only straight up advantage they have is attacking slightly faster at a range of 6 or less, but you’d really have to micro to make use of that. Other than that you’d need to send the Gascenya Damage card to reliably win engagements with pure musk armies.
I think thats a bad way to think about cards, especially in 1 v1 games, often times you just make enough of a move to allow you to win, not trying to get the theoretical value of sending a shipment.
Shiftas is a perfectly fine card if you are in drawn out age 2 situation if that is the plan, so its good to have them in deck, if you are just defending a rush then just having 10 desert archers in age 2 and then start making neftenyas when you reach age 3 is also fine. The flexiblity of that arrangement is what makes it good.
They have better base attack but lower HP and armour, its a trade off, its also a critical trade off cause the CKN has shorter range so are more likely to die due to less HP
and even then in these situations, you arent even upgrading them with either the vet or the HP card so the difference in stats matters even less
A similar version of this kinda play also exists for the Beiyang army card, its there in a lot of FF decks and you send it even if you have gone FF without making any steppe rider or keshiks and have no intention of upgrading them. You send it cause its a massive upgraded cav batch that allows you to push or catch someone off guard and it supplements well into your cav mass.
The extra range and increased ROF makes them a good defensive unit, since they can actually kite against opposing musks and its actually more dangerous for the opponent to chase cause chasing them, closing the distance means they fire even faster. Its a similar story with the Aenna, though less extreme. Its definitely micro intensive but its very powerful. in addition the lower HP is offset if you are also have a MM to heal during fights or even abuns, which again emphasise that you are fighting the opponent to the grind. The fight will be cost effective cause if your unit lives, they are basically back to full HP while they can fight.
Granted its not a way of fighting that aoe 3 players are used to, ethiopia is basically the first civ to implement this idea but its definitely been and being used in the franchise. You gain value by figthing and its very much constant agression and grind
Of course, I agree…the Ethiopians have units with little life, but fast attacks…
At first I thought this is probably ok but after seeing a game recently it would probably need a change where the first time receiving it you get no influence since combined with a somali or sudanese age up it would give the exact 500 influenced needed for a 7 cannoneer or native shipment right at the beginning of age 2 which is pretty scary
Its not used in the game (used for red sea wagons instead) but its definitely a play that is made stronger if you get jesuit influence in age 1
