Bohemian Bombard Cannons in Castle age

It will be beyond broken. Specially considering bohemians have xbows with chemistry and HC in castle age, which destroy everything else except the things BC destroy

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I agree it would be OP on arena because it would hard counter any opponent’s castle age siege, but crossbows would kill pike + bbc easily. Even longswords would do well here, and losing 225 wood + 225 gold in castle age is massive for affording farms, TC’s and Imperial Age.

How can xbows kill bbc? FU Arbalesters don’t counter BBC.

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By firing bolts at them. And dodging the slow-moving, small-area projectiles. Houfnice or Ethiopian cannons can be dangerous to archers, but cannons in small numbers are not a serious threat if they only have Pikes nearby.

I’ll admit that crossbows with 7 attack are weaker than arbs with 10 against a siege unit with 5 base attack. Still, 20 bodkin crossbows kill a cannon in 2 volleys. Cannons have lower pierce armor than scorpions or mangonels, and far lower than rams or trebuchets.

I believe bohemian player would also make hussite wagon to protect bbc against arrows. Pike+hussite wagon+bbc is hard enough to counter. Giving them bbc in castle age makes them prepare this deadly formation earlier.

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I always considered Castle Age the time when fortifications go up, without too many counters to them (rams, really), and Imperial Age the time that fortifications come crumbling down because of the addition of strong siege options. This allows players to develop their economy, most of which happens in castle age, before huge destruction can really happen in imp. Not only is that a good flow to the game - it’s historically accurate as well. And for that last reason alone I dont think any civ should get bombards in castle age.

Point is that one bbc can already threaten any fortification of your opponent. The stress induced by an opponent in imp who has trebs and is trebbing your buildings is bad enough, but imagine that but at the start of castle age.

Furthermore, on arena, there would be no way to attack a Bohemian arena base in Castle age. Bbc can snipe all siege units and stop castle drops also. There would be no way to counter it then since itll be behind walls.

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Yeah, agreed. Wagon + Pike + Cannon is very hard to counter. I think I did lose one of those to enemy pikes + monks once, and maybe some fast infantry units could beat it, but generally going to be a win for Bohemians if they get enough gunpowder siege on the field and keep it safe from cavalry.

Sure. You can have your bombards in castle age, but If only if I get the Persians to make Bombard Elephants with 1200 HP, 14 range, and spanish fire rate. And they are cheaper than War Elephants.

But in all seriousness, this would be the most ridiculous, broken civ bonus in existence. Bombard Cannon rush on arena. Instantly game over. Even even on open maps this would be cartoonishly broken.

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you dont need imp with buffed pikes, hand cannoneers and bbcs. those 1800 ress are better used to keep your push going.

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A solid block of pikes, hand cannons, possibly some hussite wagons and a few bombards in castle age would be impossible to defeat while still able of bombing enemy castles in impunity.

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Imagine being able to build and train all of those units right on time with the perfect amount of resources. Ya’ll are acting like at the beginning of this post i said “Once they get to castle their bombard is unlocked instantly and trained in 5 seconds”. It would take a player 212 seconds just to tech chemistry and queue one bombard (not counting the fact you need to build a uni + siege workshop). You will barely have resources for bombards but you jest that a player will be able to amass bombards paired with hussite wagons, paired with pikes like you have 1000 lumberjacks, it’s ridiculous. Maybe if it’s 3 times longer training time, but then it really would make no sense to make a unit that you can make 3x faster in imp.

This gives the player the OPTION of staying in castle, with an inferior bombard(not a houfnice and no SE) with doubled training time.

I think the problem is really arena. Bohemians could make an army that is unbeatable with castle age tools:
Monks + HC + Hussite Wagon + BBC

And this comp could snipe castles in castle age. I think that’s just too much of a powerspike in this map.

Maybe it’s the clowns’ dream, but it would probably be completely unbalanced on these closed maps where you can’t expand your eco and go for an counterattack.

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not that it would be any balanced on other maps either

But for which reason? They are quite okay balanced now, why change it just to have a change?

if the BBC in castle age is 6 range, then I dont see a problem.

isn’t the main reason to make bbc it outranges castles?

yea, but for balance purposes.

or give me trebuchet starting in feudal, trainable from tc, same as OP’s request.

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Trebuchets starting in feudal, but can’t unpack until imperial age

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neat feature! x20 x20

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If not most , this is one of the most absurdly broken proposal i ever read in this forum

How about getting paladins in feudal age ?
Or Arbalest in dark age but missing bracer ?
or lets give spanish standing castle in dark age but only firng 2 arrows ?
how about Mangudai’s being able to be created in archery range in feudal age?
or giving goths huskarl in feudal age but with 50 gold ?
or giving Turks direct auto-free Hussar upgrade from dark age
lets ruin the game yikes 

pls dude pls