Bohemians and Poles ... a better version of some civilizations?

With the release of the new DLC and the arrival of the Bohemians and Poles, in my opinion some civilizations are being left out, simply because the new bonuses are improvements of the previous ones that were in the game.

Starting with the bohemians, civilization of monks and gunpowder just like the Spanish.



I´m not gonna talk about the unique units because obviously Hussite Wagon, Houfnice are op.

The first unique technology for Bohemians provides 15% more mov speed for gunpowder, which is a pretty good bonus compared to the inquisition (conversion rate improved). The spanish UT reminds me of the old Huns one, bassically to fill a space. If the Spanish did not have the UT of the age of the castles, nobody would even notice. The second UT for spanish (supremacy) which is very underated but compared to the bohemians fervor and sanctity 15% mov speed and +15 hitpoints (available in castle age xd, or you can just wait to imperial age to research them for 140 and 120 food). This is just ridiculous, it combines berber civ bonus and a weaker but still pretty good version of supremacy that also works as eco bonus and affects monks ;-; and you dont even need a castle.

Now lets move onto the Spanish civ bonuses. Blacksmith upgrades cost no gold compared to the bohemians -100 wood on blacksmiths monasteries and universities. Basically as spanish you reach castle age and start building a blacksmith to get the civ bonus while the bohemian player has 1 blacksmith, 1 monastery and 1 university for 50 more wood. Next we have the cannon galleon bonus which is a lategame bonus only available in water maps while with bohemians you have access to chemistry and hand cannons in the castle age. So with Spanish and Turks you need to build a 650 stone castle to get a powerful gunpowder unit which takes time to produce while with bohemians you can train a 40 hp hand cannon with -1 less range than the jany and +5 more hp from an archery range.ok

The Spearman line deals +25% bonus damage. - so you can kill a scout with 2 hits. This is probably a civ bonus made to counter the caphracts (jk). I wanna see a fight betwen a sicilian scout and this.

Mining Camp technologies free - Bohemians not only have a better military but also ridiculous eco bonus.

The poles are pretty balanced but the castle UT needs a nerf its an op version of portuguese -20% gold and berber 15% cheap cav. The stone-gold rate also needs to be decreased from 2 to1 - 3 to1 and dont make the exchange instant, it feels like khmer farms but with stone mines.

Thats all lads

As always the civs usually launch lately overpowered or at least in a very strong state to get nerfed down appropriately depending which strats some pros discovered.

I wouldn’t worry too much.

The power creep in this game is real. Spanish have been a pretty poor civ outside of nomad for a long time now.


Civ Draft[edit]

For good reason I think xD.

Ofc these civs are strong. Devs surely don’t want to make the same mistake as they did with LotW. There they realeased trash civs. Big mistake, these civs now have a terrible recognition in the community. It has a reason why new dlcs always should be a bit OP.

And I even think poles could be the best civ ever released when finally someone found the optimal buildorders for them to abuse their various bonusses.

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I think new civs should always be banned in tourneys until they have had a chance to be figured out and balanced anyway


And what place better than a tourney to figure out if the new civs are overpowered or not?
Leaving them out seems rather shortsigthed in my opinion.

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yeah, I think a weak is actually the minimum they should give the players to find the basic builds with these civs.
Especially with the very unique polish eco.

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The goal of a tourney is also to be fair. The very first version of a civ is really risky for fairness. Also the players may not have had enough to play with or against them.


Seems rather weak argument imho, pro players should be good at improvising and adapting, not just machines who can click faster than regular humans.
I played competitively card games in the past, games where every X months a new set of cards were released, and were always the pros at official tourneys that discovered new strategies for new expansions, new decks and so on. And obviously identified soon enough broken cards/decks.
Should be the same here, imho.

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You are completely ignoring the prerequisites for cheaper Polish knights. First you must invest in a castle meaning you are forced to mine stone, and then spend resources and time to research the Szlachta.
I must agree that 60% cheaper knights adds up over time and in combination with their supposedly better Hussars (which I’ve seen lose to Magyar ones though) is a little much and could be reduced to 40-50% while buffing the civ elsewhere in return.

Especially since you already have a decent trash Cavalry unit and don’t need bad Cavaliers to fulfill the same role.
Both Hera and Viper as well as other pros already said that the Poles appear to be well balanced so far, except maybe for their tower rush potential.

Nerfing the stone-gold trickle even by a bit would only leave them with the 10% instant collected food from farms, which wouldn’t suffice to pull off strategies they need to compensate for the lack of Halberdiers, viable Heavy Cavalry past Castle Age or good Archers (missing the final Armor Upgrade and without any bonus) in order to have a chance against Heavy Cavalry and Camel civs in the late game.

That’s my take, time and statistics will tell more.

they are, but you don’t put together a completely new team in sports and throw them into the season without giving them some time to practice and play together and some warm up games do you? why should tournaments be any different?

and how has that worked in the recent past? remember when Oko first came out? the entire tournament was nothing but Oko Decks. that is why such practices aren’t good.

I quitted MTG years ago (assuming that the Oko you refer about is the MTG planeswalker), so the freshest example I can make is treasure cruise.
After every deck tried to squeeze treasure cruise in, it was banned from every competitive constructed format and restricted in Vintage.

Without tournaments we wouldn’t have seen the oppressive presence of treasure cruise though.
I get the counter argument that everyone maybe would want to try the new civs, making the tourney a Poles vs Bohemians clash, but imho tourneys are the quickest way to field test things.

Also is tourney or tournament? :thinking:

Right now I think Hussite Wagon is just a better version of Organ Gun. Other than that, I think both of the civs are pretty unique. I must have to say that devs designed these 2 civs way better than previous two.

Both but I’d stick with tournament. I agree with you, then again Viper recently said that in qualifiers both new civs will be banned because most people won’t have enough time to get accustomed to them but unlocked at a later stage of the tournament.

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Wow what a requisite they mine stone and… they get gold??? so hard plz buff :slight_smile:

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good idea lets nerf 10% the cost and then give poles another op bonus XD

Would be the first “op bonus XD”. But where did I even ask for such one?

As Polish guy They can get rid all of this bonuses, but give better bonuses for Cavalry. Horse is more important than Food , Gold or Health Insurance.

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It’s a shame they gave them meso-civ tier Heavy Cavalry when in reality Poland had some of the strongest knights, even on par with the Teutonic Order.
Just doesn’t feel like the medieval Poles when playing this civ, but I guess we must be happy with what we got.

But asking for anything in terms of historical accuracy is frowned upon by this community. Same as when people were asking for changes of the silly Frankish Throwing Axemen.