I get what you mean, but we had that discussion in another thread already.
The 1650+ pool is the only one that does not have enough data points to be as significant as the other pools.
But that is not the point.
The devs chose 2 things for all their balance changes. Their either balanced the game for Pro games (which a lot of people watch) or for the average player (also a large group of people).
To be in the 1650+ 1v1 pool you need to be a top 500 player.
They do not balance the game just for this handful of peopleā¦
But I think we are getting a little bit off topic. I never argued the Byzantines are a weak civ in high level play.
I do not want to give the Byzantines a buff for high level games.
What I want is to give all those people that are struggling with them and get rushed down (and looking at the statistics its a lot of players) a fair and creative chance to defend in the early game.
That is why I suggested putting the tech in the TC. Pro players would not research it as it costs villager production time.
This a chance to help out the little man while not interrupting the pro games. That is why I like this idea.
No, they are still awful but not totally garbage. Ofc you can make any civ strong by just silly bonuses but thats not how game design works, otherwise we could also give teutons dinos to ride on if its only about pleasing the whiners that want better civs, but you dont care about useful changes
what are you talking about? goths have a great winrate everywhere except the pro level and Teutons are a great Civ.
oh yes, the fans are terrible for wanting civs like portuguese to be more then a running joke when we got civs like Mayans and Aztecs running around being picked consistently in every single tournament.
Winrate is not everything. They are still C-Tier Arabia and just badly designed.
Its not about that you want buffs for your civs, its the how and how the devs react on it. The balance changes are buffing their winrates ofc, but it totally wastes the civ.
And please @MatCauthon3, stay on-topic. It is still on Byzantines here.
how does it waste the civs? the buffs to teutons was totally in line with how their civ plays. slow, steady, grind it out defensive style.
i was merely responding to comments made.
fact is i donāt think Byzantines need anything right now, and if they do, i think we should wait for more data before that occurs, least of all this god awful fortified palisade wall idea.
despite the claims of this thread, i donāt believe Byzantines have a weak early game, they after all save 25% on trash and that can easily help them against any early aggression thrown their way. their boom might be slower then a civ like celts or slavs, but most are. They have solid Archers, Cataphracts are now affordable in Imperial Age, and they can field very cheap armies outside of that.
Its better than giving them bracer and husbandry for sure but still there is no reason why teutons need +2 armour on 4 units if its clearly about balancing their cavalry. Teutonic Paladins being on a level with Elite Boyars (both FU) is horrible and just because it is in there little summary in the techtree is doesnt mean its automatically good. We dont need totally meme civs that just do one thing, we have left AoK for long.
I agree. Byzantines are fun and fine. There are other boring civs out there. Ofc it sounds fitting at the first glance and Byzantines are generally underrepresented when it comes to tournaments but there are civs that are hit worse with that. If this tech needs to desperately given one civ, then ok Byz maybe would be the best place, but still i dont think they need it and dont think that tech is particularly good. Byzantines are a stonewall civ for me anyhow, just when I think of their general cities. Having loads of pallisade walls would destroy it a bit for me.
Because of their civ bonus, I think Cumans ought to be the civ which has a palisade wall with the Fortified Palisade Wall graphic. Instead of an HP boost on normal palisade walls, their new team bonus could be replacing Palisade Walls with Reinforced Palisade Walls which have the same stats as their current palisade walls but with the Fortified Palisade Wall graphic.