As of late I’m seeing some wanting to change Britons,
So here’s a change I’d think would be acceptable -
Foot Archer civilization
• Town Centers cost -50% wood starting in the Castle Age
• Foot archers (except skirmishers) +1 range in Castle and Imperial Age (+2 total)
• Shepherds work 25% faster
Unique Unit:
Longbowman (archer)
Unique Techs:
• Yeomen (+1 foot archer range
+2 tower attack)
• Warwolf (Trebuchets do blast damage)
Team Bonus:
Archery Ranges work 20% faster
---- >
Foot Archer civilization
• Town Centers cost -50% wood starting in the Castle Age
• Longbowman +1 range in Castle and Imperial Age (+2 total)
• Shepherds work 25% faster
• Archery Ranges work 10% faster starting in Feudal Age
Unique Unit:
Longbowman (archer)
Unique Techs:
• Yeomen (+1 Longbowman range
+2 tower attack)
• Warwolf (Trebuchets do blast damage)
So, when not going with their UU, their military consists of faster producing archers that are lacking upgrades (and have no other bonuses) and knights that are missing upgrades too?
Forcing a civ into their UU like that is a really bad idea.
To balance them for team games, just remove their team bonus.
The main part is to not overshadow longbows with the arbalesters by keeping the boosts for longbows while still giving their archer line an amount of use that allows for quick ability to bring them out without them being op, lacking an upgrade like thumb ring being akin to goths missing their last armor upgrade.
Ah ok I see that you want the range bonus to only apply to longbows…
idk… tbh since de came out longbows seemingly lost in popularity (except for closed map TGs)
TBH if I wanted to nerf Britons I would just adress the Team bonus and /or the TC bonus. The range has over time come synonymous with britons and in my eyes isn’t as OP as many say. It’s iconic, but not OP.
The issue with Britons in TGs is more that it also gives a huge boost to the other flank.
I would give their archer +1 attack against mounted units instead of range bonus
British archers fought Franks knights a lot in history so the British archers should be more experienced against knights.
The bonus range is too op due to the advantage against other archers and onager, but foot archer is fairly weak against knight line which need a slight buff
Yeah sure. It’s just so much easier typing MAA. My life already has so many burdens, like trying to work out how we’re going to get flaming pigs in the game (because they were actually used in real life)
Knights take 40 xbow shots before die, with just 1 more attack it goes down to 30 (same as Bohemian Xbow with chemistry, and Bohemians need #### 200g for that).
But the Bohemian castle age advantage falls in Imperial, with such advantage in imperial arbalest need 28 shots to kill cavalier, and 45 for Paladin, that would lead to completely even worse unfairness than the current TB. (Imagine that with an Ethiopian player lol).
Archers units can’t be good in areas where aren’t designed to be good at (look why Obsidian Arrows and the former Saracen archer bonus were all gone, and I still hate the current Saracen bonus for that reason).
BTW we currently want less xbow/arbalest dominance to make archers better vs cavalry when with the current pathing doesn’t help
I think we should stop fighting the archer v knight fight here in the forum. Instead in the game.
If we start fighting in the forum we have to face the popularity issue.
And as it looks knights are way more popular among the playerbase.
We need a honest debate here in the forum and if this isn’t possible devs should completely stop listening to any of such discussions here.
exactly, it’s not about popularity either. It’s about BALANCE. and there is nothing balanced about British Archers literally decimating every form of cavalry with such ease. Knights may be too problematic, but nerf them another way, similar to the recent archer nerf.
Make Bloodlines or Cavalier more expensive. Doing so is a nerf to cav civs without having a long lasting impact. same thing as the archer nerf.
I wonder if something like this is part of the reason infantry don’t see so much play. Here’s my logic:
Cav have speed. They can run around, and pick fights, and micro and stuff. That’s fun to use. Not to mention that they are just strong units. So cav is fun to play.
Archers have range. They can be microed, they can hit and run, and you don’t need to be up close to fight. That’s fun to play.
Infantry are slow, and melee. Even if they had really good stats, they simply don’t have anything to make them super fun. You could make an argument for drowning the enemy in a horde of infantry, but they don’t really have micro potential to the extent the others do.
Therefore, the swordsman line is often unpopular, at least for the parts of the game where archers/cav really shine. I don’t know, maybe it’s just me.
The only fun part I find is to use formation and stand ground to micro down the opponent when your opponent think that they can win you without micro e.g. Huns 30 Hal can kill Spanish 30 paladin if Spanish paladin attack move on them. But for average player they know the potential of Infantry and they won’t pick the fight. Therefore, you need to forsight the situtation and put the Infantry to oppoent base beforehand with its cheaper cost and win the game via gain the tempo which required a lot of scouting and macro skill. It is not fun to do this
Tell me why their bonus are gone. IMO they are not supposed to kill TC with archers and thats all I can think of.
Archers should be better in late game due to the gold cost. I know they are too powerful in early game right now though, but their advantage is based on the early tech and the high value of food in early game. Not only Bohemian archer, but all foot archer sucks in imperial due to the resource value change.
I still don’t know why you think British archer outrange onager is reasonable but +1 attack against knight is not.
Yeah, but halbs are different. They might be kind of slow, and maybe not super exciting, but their effectiveness against cav makes them well worth using, you just need to position them properly. Long Swords on the other hand can be good in some situations, but one of their best roles is against buildings, or trash killing in the lategame. And neither of these are particularly helpful in the midgame, when LS get way under utilized.